A little reading material for the board libs

[CashvilleCane1]

immigration / children separation issue predates 1997, at which time the Flores Consent Decree (FCD) was signed. Here is a National Review link:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/05/illegal-immigration-enforcement-separating-kids-at-border/

Also here is a link talking about what actually happens to these “missing kids” post FCD:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/06/ice-loses-1500-children-myth-shows-media-bias/

@cdwright40 @cems52 @Strack_Cane @Cane919
@Cane_Clyde

Now that this cleared up maybe we can all play nice / or not

 

[cems52]

immigration / children separation issue predates 1997, at which time the Flores Consent Decree (FCD) was signed. Here is a National Review link:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/05/illegal-immigration-enforcement-separating-kids-at-border/

Also here is a link talking about what actually happens to these “missing kids” post FCD:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/06/ice-loses-1500-children-myth-shows-media-bias/

@cdwright40 @cems52 @Strack_Cane @Cane919
@Cane_Clyde

Now that this cleared up maybe we can all play nice / or not

Why doesn't Trump simply stop separating these kids from their moms? He is the president.

 

[289fia]

Careful, you don't want to cloud the issue with actual facts!! Then CD will have nothing to rant about.

 

[289fia]

Why doesn't Trump simply stop separating these kids from their moms? He is the president.

Read both articles .. a huge number of kids arrive alone or accompanying non-family members.

 

[cems52]

Read both articles .. a huge number of kids arrive alone or accompanying non-family members.

What about the rest that come with their mom?

 

[CashvilleCane1]

Why doesn't Trump simply stop separating these kids from their moms? He is the president.

I think it’s going to be changed soon. Congress has to change it.

 

[Cane_Clyde]

immigration / children separation issue predates 1997, at which time the Flores Consent Decree (FCD) was signed. Here is a National Review link:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/05/illegal-immigration-enforcement-separating-kids-at-border/

Also here is a link talking about what actually happens to these “missing kids” post FCD:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/06/ice-loses-1500-children-myth-shows-media-bias/

@cdwright40 @cems52 @Strack_Cane @Cane919
@Cane_Clyde

Now that this cleared up maybe we can all play nice / or not

The fifth paragraph is literally what I said: it’s a Trump policy. My whole issue is that Trump acts like it’s some concrete law that he has to enforce bc the Dems. Trump and Sessions could change said policy.

 

[Cane919]

I guess the question then becomes what other laws do we not enforce?

The fifth paragraph is literally what I said: it’s a Trump policy. My whole issue is that Trump acts like it’s some concrete law that he has to enforce bc the Dems. Trump and Sessions could change said policy.

 

[e_cushing]

Why doesn't Trump simply stop separating these kids from their moms? He is the president.

It's my understanding that the only kids separated are the border jumpers and the illegals who enter port looking for asylum the family is kept together. Also trumps proposal is to keep the family together so if Chuck and Nancy care about immigrants and care about children they will help pass it.

 

[Cane919]

This is simply noise. They’ll flood the airways with feigned outrage only to vote against the Republican bill on immigration.

It's my understanding that the only kids separated are the border jumpers and the illegals who enter port looking for asylum the family is kept together. Also trumps proposal is to keep the family together so if Chuck and Nancy care about immigrants and care about children they will help pass it.

 

[Cane_Clyde]

immigration / children separation issue predates 1997, at which time the Flores Consent Decree (FCD) was signed. Here is a National Review link:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/05/illegal-immigration-enforcement-separating-kids-at-border/

Also here is a link talking about what actually happens to these “missing kids” post FCD:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/06/ice-loses-1500-children-myth-shows-media-bias/

@cdwright40 @cems52 @Strack_Cane @Cane919
@Cane_Clyde

Now that this cleared up maybe we can all play nice / or not

Lol, after reading the whole article, it’s EXACTLY what I’ve been saying. It’s a messed up situation that we should really take look at. It’s a very good article bc it brings up some issues for debate:

1) what do we do with families legitimately fleeing their country due to danger? (Keyword families. If I were fleeing a war torn country, there’s no way in hell I’d leave my 3 year old daughter.)

2) is Mexico a safe first country to seek asylum (I say no)

3) is the Trump admin really “throwing money” to solve the problem? (I also say no bc he’s said himself this whole policy is a figurative bargaining chip.)

4) would $20 billion for a Wall be better suited for updating immigration infrastructure?

 

[Cane_Clyde]

I guess the question then becomes what other laws do we not enforce?

I lean left, which means I’m more likely to bring morality into the equation. Laws do not equal morality. Is it moral to separate children from their parents while the family seeks asylum?

 

[e_cushing]

I lean left, which means I’m more likely to bring morality into the equation. Laws do not equal morality. Is it moral to separate children from their parents while the family seeks asylum?

Is it moral to bring your children somewhere illegally knowing it will most likely result in being separated from your children?

 

[Cane919]

It depends on the situation but for the sake of argument, let’s say it is. What do you suggest we do?

I lean left, which means I’m more likely to bring morality into the equation. Laws do not equal morality. Is it moral to separate children from their parents while the family seeks asylum?

 

[Cane_Clyde]

It depends on the situation but for the sake of argument, let’s say it is. What do you suggest we do?

Instead of spending $20 billion on a wall that probably won’t work, use it to boost infrastructure along our borders that encourages people to seek asylum the right way, opposed to trying to illegally cross the border.

 

[Cane919]

Or do both by making part of the overall funding request. Until then, what should we be doing?

Instead of spending $20 billion on a wall that probably won’t work, use it to boost infrastructure along our borders that encourages people to seek asylum the right way, opposed to trying to illegally cross the border.

 

[Cane_Clyde]

Or do both by making part of the overall funding request. Until then, what should we be doing?

We can’t afford both. In the meantime, if families are seeking asylum together, we should keep them together until that process plays out. At least the mothers and the children. The fathers can be the “representative” for the family. If they’re locked up or put into poor conditions, so be it. In my opinion, that’s their burden to bear on behalf of their family.

 

[Cane919]

I believe you just described the current policy. As for affording both, I think we can do both if the elected officials want to, but they continue play games with the topic.

We can’t afford both. In the meantime, if families are seeking asylum together, we should keep them together until that process plays out. At least the mothers and the children. The fathers can be the “representative” for the family. If they’re locked up or put into poor conditions, so be it. In my opinion, that’s their burden to bear on behalf of their family.

 

[Cane_Clyde]

I believe you just described the current policy. As for affording both, I think we can do both if the elected officials want to, but they continue play games with the topic.

It’s clearly not the current policy. Otherwise, there would not be facilities housing children by themselves and there would not be all this outrage.

 

[Cane919]

You do realize children arrive at the boarder alone right. In fact there could be 20+ kids with the mule.

It’s clearly not the current policy. Otherwise, there would not be facilities housing children by themselves and there would not be all this outrage.

 

[cdwright40]

immigration / children separation issue predates 1997, at which time the Flores Consent Decree (FCD) was signed. Here is a National Review link:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/05/illegal-immigration-enforcement-separating-kids-at-border/

Also here is a link talking about what actually happens to these “missing kids” post FCD:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/06/ice-loses-1500-children-myth-shows-media-bias/

@cdwright40 @cems52 @Strack_Cane @Cane919
@Cane_Clyde

Now that this cleared up maybe we can all play nice / or not

I think what you are doing is conflating several issues to defend a monstrous policy. Nobody has argued that kids don't get separated from their parents. This is the point you keep arguing but it isn't what the uproar is about. What the uproar is about is the cause of Trumps Zero Tolerance policy facilitating extremely large numbers of unaccounted for children and kids that are ripped away from their parents.

Please stop arguing something that nobody but yourself is arguing and while I am at it I need to clear up other key points with yourself and Trumps other supporters defending this.

Look, it doesn't matter who else did this and when it was done even if Trump didn't lie which he did. The policy is monstrous. Others doing it doesn't absolve his policy. This idea that you and other here have that if you can show where Obama or Hillary or someone else did the same horrible thing it is acceptable is bat shit crazy. It isn't acceptable for any of them so why go through the exercise. Since none of them are president.

Lastly, I see here where so many people make this point. Well, when you break the law this is rightfully going to happen. If you have kids and were picked up by the cops you are not going to see your kids. I see this nonsense lately too. Let me start by saying what we do in this country. Looking for asylum is not breaking the law. Get that through your heads. They are looking for a better life for their kids. Like someone in most our American families did that weren't slaves. They are taking the calculation that whatever happens by coming to this country is better than the extreme atrocities in their home land. America has set the standard for when this happens. They are not necessarily allowed in but we do not break families as a matter of policy. It is inhumane no matter how you try to explain this away. We look for other solutions.

 

[Cane_Clyde]

You do realize children arrive at the boarder alone right. In fact there could be 20+ kids with the mule.

I get that. That’s a separate issue though. I’m talking about families that arrive together. If the child comes alone, then clearly they will have to remain alone until either the foster system plays out or they are returned home.

 

[Cane919]

I think you’ll find mother and children are detained together. I tell you what though, even more reason to approve the funding for the wall with additional funding for proper facilities for those seeking asylum.

I get that. That’s a separate issue though. I’m talking about families that arrive together. If the child comes alone, then clearly they will have to remain alone until either the foster system plays out or they are returned home.

 

[cdwright40]

I don't know what is honestly worse. This Zero Tolerance Policy or the Idea that people have the need to defend it.

 

[Cane919]

It’ll be ok CD....I’m sure they’ll find a solution.

I don't know what is honestly worse. This Zero Tolerance Policy or the Idea that people have the need to defend it.

 

[289fia]

It’s clearly not the current policy. Otherwise, there would not be facilities housing children by themselves and there would not be all this outrage.

That IS the issue .. that a lot of children arrive at the border unaccompanied .. they are run aways going it alone. You see street children all over Latin America.

 

[BreakingCane]

Lol, after reading the whole article, it’s EXACTLY what I’ve been saying. It’s a messed up situation that we should really take look at. It’s a very good article bc it brings up some issues for debate:

1) what do we do with families legitimately fleeing their country due to danger? (Keyword families. If I were fleeing a war torn country, there’s no way in hell I’d leave my 3 year old daughter.)

2) is Mexico a safe first country to seek asylum (I say no)

3) is the Trump admin really “throwing money” to solve the problem? (I also say no bc he’s said himself this whole policy is a figurative bargaining chip.)

4) would $20 billion for a Wall be better suited for updating immigration infrastructure?

What would you do with the 11-12 year old murderous MS-13 member brought over without his family?

 

[BreakingCane]

I don't know what is honestly worse. This Zero Tolerance Policy or the Idea that people have the need to defend it.

Build an unjumpable wall and much of this is resolved.

 

[Cane_Clyde]

That IS the issue .. that a lot of children arrive at the border unaccompanied .. they are run aways going it alone. You see street children all over Latin America.

Follow slowly: if a child arrives at our border alone, they will have to be detained with other children who arrived alone. If a child arrives with a family, that child should remain with the family, at the very least the mother.

 

[Cane_Clyde]

What would you do with the 11-12 year old murderous MS-13 member brought over without his family?

So in your perceived world, there are 1000’s of murderous 11 and 12 year olds charging our borders by themselves?

 

[BreakingCane]

So in your perceived world, there are 1000’s of murderous 11 and 12 year olds charging our borders by themselves?

Learn to read and just answer the question. We can have tangential discussions next.

 

[cdwright40]

That IS the issue .. that a lot of children arrive at the border unaccompanied .. they are run aways going it alone. You see street children all over Latin America.

I think the the anger centers around the children that are separated from their families. Yes, there are a lot of kids that try to make it on their own. That's not what this is about. It is about the kids that are separated at the border. Which wouldn't be so outrageous if it weren't for the fact that when these people get in front of a judge they are told they don't know where their kids are, and what agency has them. The judge is telling them someone will contact you eventually. That's not how we roll. Sorry, it isn't. Using innocent kids as political pawns?

 

[Cane_Clyde]

I think you’ll find mother and children are detained together. I tell you what though, even more reason to approve the funding for the wall with additional funding for proper facilities for those seeking asylum.

Man, your head is firmly entrenched in the sand. That’s what all the outrage is about, that children are being completely separated from their families. If kids were showing up by themselves, then they wouldn’t have a family to be separated from, and would therefore have to be kept at a place with children in similar circumstances.

 

[Cane_Clyde]

Learn to read and just answer the question. We can have tangential discussions next.

Keep him detained with other children who showed up alone at the border. If their family member is MS-13, then send both their asses home. If not, follow the proper procedures to either place that child in foster care or send them back to their country.

 

[Cane919]

I’ll tell you what I’ll do. I’m traveling, but when I get back I’ll reach out to some of my buddies on the border pTrol and confirm it one way or another.

Man, your head is firmly entrenched in the sand. That’s what all the outrage is about, that children are being completely separated from their families. If kids were showing up by themselves, then they wouldn’t have a family to be separated from, and would therefore have to be kept at a place with children in similar circumstances.

 

[BreakingCane]

Keep him detained with other children who showed up alone at the border. If their family member is MS-13, then send both their asses home. If not, follow the proper procedures to either place that child in foster care or send them back to their country.

How do you know they are MS-13?

 

[BreakingCane]

I think the the anger centers around the children that are separated from their families. Yes, there are a lot of kids that try to make it on their own. That's not what this is about. It is about the kids that are separated at the border. Which wouldn't be so outrageous if it weren't for the fact that when these people get in front of a judge they are told they don't know where their kids are, and what agency has them. The judge is telling them someone will contact you eventually. That's not how we roll. Sorry, it isn't. Using innocent kids as political pawns?

Sounds like a good deterrent for not crossing the border illegally or risk losing your kids.

 

[Cane_Clyde]

How do you know they are MS-13?

Tattoos on their face? I don’t know. I think that the scenario of an 11-12 year old MS-13 sleeper cell is much less frequent than you would like to believe.

 

[BreakingCane]

Tattoos on their face? I don’t know. I think that the scenario of an 11-12 year old MS-13 sleeper cell is much less frequent than you would like to believe.

They are commonly murdering as early as 11-12 down there, which is why I asked.

 

[Cane_Clyde]

They are commonly murdering as early as 11-12 down there, which is why I asked.

Down where? Los Angeles or Latin America?