All LEO's

[USMC/CANE]

your input would be appreciated: http://usmclife.com/2016/09/usmc-veteran-fired-police-department-not-shooting-armed-man/

Man, being in gunfights, there really is no right answer.

Thoughts. Thanks!

 

[Swaggah64]

I am not LEO but the man should be applauded not fired.


LEO needs to place more value on the lives of others.

 

[USMC/CANE]

I am not LEO but the man should be applauded not fired.


LEO needs to place more value on the lives of others.

I would like to get full discourse on why he was fired. Escalating force is what is taught to us as combatants. I would like to hear from LEO's on this. Man, this sucks!

 

[Swaggah64]

I would like to get full discourse on why he was fired. Escalating force is what is taught to us as combatants. I would like to hear from LEO's on this. Man, this sucks!

It seems that it is so rare that an Officer deescalates any situation.

It makes more sense if there is upward pressure to SHOOT! WTF!?

 

[dalvarad]

your input would be appreciated: http://usmclife.com/2016/09/usmc-veteran-fired-police-department-not-shooting-armed-man/

Man, being in gunfights, there really is no right answer.

Thoughts. Thanks!

That is tough. As a LEO in my department we conduct a lot of scenario based training, and have really laid off most of the live fire drills except for twice a year qualification. Decision shooting and scenario based training is the closest thing we can come to the real thing. As a LEO we are trained to protect the public, our fellow officers, and ourselves. In this situation he may have compromised his fellow officers. I try not to second guess my brethren because you never know how you would react in a certain situation. Most guys can talk tough and be Monday morning quarterbacks, but believe me, the last thing we want to do is take a human life.

 

[Swaggah64]

Deescalating situations could be anything. It doesn't have to be life and death.

Aren't marines taught restraint? Why doesn't the 'police' use the same restraint or held to the same standards?

I am no expert but I am very interested in law enforcement reform.

It'll go a long way towards important roving race relations and overall public relations and perception.

 

[CashvilleCane1]

your input would be appreciated: http://usmclife.com/2016/09/usmc-veteran-fired-police-department-not-shooting-armed-man/

Man, being in gunfights, there really is no right answer.

Thoughts. Thanks!

Man that's a tough one. Sounds like he had it under control until the others showed up. I don't have an issue with his actions just as long as he had proper cover to deal with the situation from. Bad situation all around though. He will have a successful civil suit against his agency for wrongful termination unless there's more to the story which isn't being published or known about.

 

[Caneious Maximus]

I'm not a policeman, but did serve in a U.S. Army infrantry unit. Being down range all bets are off. The moments of sudden, inconcievable violence will change even the toughest off souls forever. Not sure what is worse, the fear of being killed or killing. At the moment it's you or them, but years down the road it becomes clouded.

 

[USMC/CANE]

That is tough. As a LEO in my department we conduct a lot of scenario based training, and have really laid off most of the live fire drills except for twice a year qualification. Decision shooting and scenario based training is the closest thing we can come to the real thing. As a LEO we are trained to protect the public, our fellow officers, and ourselves. In this situation he may have compromised his fellow officers. I try not to second guess my brethren because you never know how you would react in a certain situation. Most guys can talk tough and be Monday morning quarterbacks, but believe me, the last thing we want to do is take a human life.

Yeah, as a shooter I cannot make the call on this. I've used some extreme patience (especially when calling for fire or air), but I fully get life and death scenarios. Feel bad for the kid...

Thanks for the input. Be safe out there!

 

[CashvilleCane1]

Deescalating situations could be anything. It doesn't have to be life and death.

Aren't marines taught restraint? Why doesn't the 'police' use the same restraint or held to the same standards?

I am no expert but I am very interested in law enforcement reform.

It'll go a long way towards important roving race relations and overall public relations and perception.

I strongly suggest you go do 5-6 ride alongs before you utter the words reform again. That's that same bs that gets the good guys shot. We don't have all day to analyze a situation. We have to react quickly more often than not. There are good cops and bad cops. Let the good ones do their jobs and deal with the bad ones.

 

[USMC/CANE]

I'm not a policeman, but did serve in a U.S. Army infrantry unit. Being down range all bets are off. The moments of sudden, inconcievable violence will change even the toughest off souls forever. Not sure what is worse, the fear of being killed or killing. At the moment it's you or them, but years down the road it becomes clouded.

I feel you my man, I wasn't there so I cannot arm chair QB, I just feel bad for the kid trying not to use deadly force and losing his job over it.

 

[USMC/CANE]

I strongly suggest you go do 5-6 ride alongs before you utter the words reform again. That's that same bs that gets the good guys shot. We don't have all day to analyze a situation. We have to react quickly more often than not. There are good cops and bad cops. Let the good ones do their jobs and deal with the bad ones.

Agree with you on the reaction time it's a tough call. Very tough. But, I would/will back my guys and hold judgement util the investigation is complete.

 

[CashvilleCane1]

Agree with you on the reaction time it's a tough call. Very tough. But, I would/will back my guys and hold judgement util the investigation is complete.

Totally agree

 

[dalvarad]

I strongly suggest you go do 5-6 ride alongs before you utter the words reform again. That's that same bs that gets the good guys shot. We don't have all day to analyze a situation. We have to react quickly more often than not. There are good cops and bad cops. Let the good ones do their jobs and deal with the bad ones.

To echo that, we also have a responsibility to return home safely to our family.

 

[dalvarad]

Yeah, as a shooter I cannot make the call on this. I've used some extreme patience (especially when calling for fire or air), but I fully get life and death scenarios. Feel bad for the kid...

Thanks for the input. Be safe out there!

Truly appreciated, and thank you for your service!

 

[USMC/CANE]

To echo that, we also have a responsibility to return home safely to our family.

I would love to have town hall meetings where we can have civil discourse on how to midigate violence.

 

[ZEKEMUG]

Can't believe he got fired. I do think he's class all the way. Love that he stuck by his decision and wouldn't resign.

 

[jr6980]

the public our fellow officers, and ourselves are the most important things to us. If the suspect was flicking his wrist as he said he should had used deadly force. What if the gun would had be loaded and he shot him, a fellow officers or an innocent bystander.

 

[Caneious Maximus]

I feel you my man, I wasn't there so I cannot arm chair QB, I just feel bad for the kid trying not to use deadly force and losing his job over it.

I couldn't judge the young man either, sounds like a good man in a horrible situation. I'm just glad there are enough selveless people willing to do what they think is right. To all you LEO's out there, I have somewhat of an idea of what you go through and thank you.

 

[GCFAN1]

My #1 priority is to return home at the end of shift to my family. If you have a gun, and make gestures as if youre going to point it at me, I have a right to protect myself. I will not wait around to see if youre going to pull the trigger. You raise your weapon, I will shoot.

He showed a lot of restraint, however, he also rolled the dice with his own life. All incidents are different, for all these "reformers" I recommend you do several ride alongs prior to wanting reform. Not all shootings are unjustified, not all shootings are race related. Do bad LEO's exist? Certainly.

What is needed is community reform, the community needs to stand up to the bad foes that ruin the neighborhoods where good honest people suffer... Also, community policing needs to invest resources in building stronger bonds in neighborhoods, however , the community needs to fully commit for it to work.

 

[USMC/CANE]

Can't believe he got fired. I do think he's class all the way. Love that he stuck by his decision and wouldn't resign.

I don't have an issue with the force used, but that he lost his job for not using force. That's the Gunny in me, sugar daddy now. Lol

 

[USMC/CANE]

My #1 priority is to return home at the end of shift to my family. If you have a gun, and make gestures as if youre going to point it at me, I have a right to protect myself. I will not wait around to see if youre going to pull the trigger. You raise your weapon, I will shoot.

He showed a lot of restraint, however, he also rolled the dice with his own life. All incidents are different, for all these "reformers" I recommend you do several ride alongs prior to wanting reform. Not all shootings are unjustified, not all shootings are race related. Do bad LEO's exist? Certainly.

What is needed is community reform, the community needs to stand up to the bad foes that ruin the neighborhoods where good honest people suffer... Also, community policing needs to invest resources in building stronger bonds in neighborhoods, however , the community needs to fully commit for it to work.

Post of the century on this topic!!! 100% agreed!

Thank you!

 

[ibis all night]

You should only fire when you believe that your life or the life of someone else is danger, potential imminent death or harm. So if he did not fire, he must have thought that his life, or anybody else's life, was not in danger. Pretty simple

 

[USMC/CANE]

My #1 priority is to return home at the end of shift to my family. If you have a gun, and make gestures as if youre going to point it at me, I have a right to protect myself. I will not wait around to see if youre going to pull the trigger. You raise your weapon, I will shoot.

He showed a lot of restraint, however, he also rolled the dice with his own life. All incidents are different, for all these "reformers" I recommend you do several ride alongs prior to wanting reform. Not all shootings are unjustified, not all shootings are race related. Do bad LEO's exist? Certainly.

What is needed is community reform, the community needs to stand up to the bad foes that ruin the neighborhoods where good honest people suffer... Also, community policing needs to invest resources in building stronger bonds in neighborhoods, however , the community needs to fully commit for it to work.

Community reform, that's resonating in my head. I would love to have this, I have been in a ton critical thinking situations and hope we can someday do what you speak of.

 

[Swaggah64]

I strongly suggest you go do 5-6 ride alongs before you utter the words reform again. That's that same bs that gets the good guys shot. We don't have all day to analyze a situation. We have to react quickly more often than not. There are good cops and bad cops. Let the good ones do their jobs and deal with the bad ones.

I have no interest in getting anyone on either end shot. Again I am NOT talking about situations with weapons or potential shootings.

I am referring very minor interactions that get escalated for no reason. Intereactions that do not need to lead to arrest, threat of arrest, police bullying, failure to follow Terry Stop 'rules' and constitutional violations. None of which include any violence or threat of violence except by the LEO.

That's the ride of reform I am referring too. I did a couple of rode alongs with a City of Miami Police lieutenant in the mid 2000's. Things were completely different. Cameras have started a change for the positive. I just want it to continue.

I wish no one harm the old way is no acceptable anymore. By reform I mean education.

It just makes your job safer, with less animosity.

I don't know how this bs gets guys shot

That is complete nonsense and some company line to protect those that abuse power and trampled on citizens rights. Bad guys are very seldom handled at all. It's like how the Catholic Chirch handled pedophiles. Deny, protect, lie and reassign.

 

[Swaggah64]

Post of the century on this topic!!! 100% agreed!

Thank you!

How is this the post of the century?

All of the onus is on the community first. LEO takes no burden or responsibility in this scenario unless the community polices itself first.

It's reversed. The community employs the police not vice versa. They are so used to bullying. This is another case. Not well thought out.

 

[Swaggah64]

To echo that, we also have a responsibility to return home safely to our family.

By murdering someone who is not a threat?

I want police to return home safely. But that makes no sense in a scenario where the person is not threatening you.

 

[USMC/CANE]

How is this the post of the century?

All of the onus is on the community first. LEO takes no burden or responsibility in this scenario unless the community polices itself first.

It's reversed. The community employs the police not vice versa. They are so used to bullying. This is another case. Not well thought out.

He's speaking from his perspective when faced with a deadly force issue. That's why.

 

[Swaggah64]

He's speaking from his perspective when faced with a deadly force issue. That's why.

Maybe I missed something. I'll reread.

 

[USMC/CANE]

Maybe I missed something. I'll reread.

That's rhe crux of the narrative; what/how do you react in those pressure situations. I'm angry that the kid lost his job for not shooting.

 

[Swaggah64]

That's rhe crux of the narrative; what/how do you react in those pressure situations. I'm angry that the kid lost his job for not shooting.

Me too not every situation fits in a box. Restraint should not be frowned upon.

Of course I was not there but sound like the man wanted 'suicide by cop' and he was not willing to oblige but his backup was happy to.

 

[CashvilleCane1]

I have no interest in getting anyone on either end shot. Again I am NOT talking about situations with weapons or potential shootings.

I am referring very minor interactions that get escalated for no reason. Intereactions that do not need to lead to arrest, threat of arrest, police bullying, failure to follow Terry Stop 'rules' and constitutional violations. None of which include any violence or threat of violence except by the LEO.

That's the ride of reform I am referring too. I did a couple of rode alongs with a City of Miami Police lieutenant in the mid 2000's. Things were completely different. Cameras have started a change for the positive. I just want it to continue.

I wish no one harm the old way is no acceptable anymore. By reform I mean education.

It just makes your job safer, with less animosity.

I don't know how this bs gets guys shot

That is complete nonsense and some company line to protect those that abuse power and trampled on citizens rights. Bad guys are very seldom handled at all. It's like how the Catholic Chirch handled pedophiles. Deny, protect, lie and reassign.

Ok but how do you control where "reform" stops? Those who push their agendas will keep pushing and our training tactics are there for a reason. Listen man I've seen cops be dicks for no real good reason and yes I totally disagree with it. I've also seen people go out of their way to be dicks to cops when cops were trying to be friendly and break those walls down. It's not a one sided problem.

 

[289fia]

Seems like the officer had the situation under control .. and was AWARE of the armed mans control of his firearm. He was watching closely (it seemed by the description) and at no time was the gun RAISED. First man on the scene .. familiar with the "pulse" of the situation .. should have been permitted to continue to attempt to de-escalate. If the armed man does then attempt to raise his gun .. then you have no option.

 

[Swaggah64]

Ok but how do you control where "reform" stops? Those who push their agendas will keep pushing and our training tactics are there for a reason. Listen man I've seen cops be dicks for no real good reason and yes I totally disagree with it. I've also seen people go out of their way to be dicks to cops when cops were trying to be friendly and break those walls down. It's not a one sided problem.

I agree that it's not one sided.

Cops knowing the laws and respecting the constitution is on them though.

You can Call it something other than reform.

 

[CashvilleCane1]

I agree that it's not one sided.

Cops knowing the laws and respecting the constitution is on them though.

You can Call it something other than reform.

It's called not being a dick. Some guys who work in this profession have no business doing it. The majority though are good people who want to make a difference. The bad ones make everyone else look bad.