DeSantis loses in court on the vaccine issue for cruise lines

[816_Cane]

Sorry, your logic escaped me. I argued that businesses and individuals should be able to self impose stricter safety measures for themselves than the minimum safety measures established by the government. Governments should not prohibit these extra safety precautions.

Do you agree or disagree with that?

Governments govern in the manner they decide to whether I agree with it or not. Not sure why it's a difficult concept for you to grasp that governments can do the following:

Set minimum requirements that private business can go above if desired
Set maximum requirements that private business can go below if desired

 

[rkrantz]

RK,

You are a fun poster to read because you are a passionate, ideology-based anti vaxxer, at least as far as the Covid vaccine is concerned. I’ve never met a person with your beliefs.

In that regard, I recently read an article that portrays anti vaxxers as generally: white, rural, Evangelical and pro-Trump. In contrast, Vax Hesitant people are generally: young, Brown, Black and not very compelled by medical issues.

Do you agree with these categories of the non-vaccinated or are they too overbroad or stereotyped?

Thanks.

Thanks Cortez. I appreciate your discussions as well because they arent the typical hyperbole fueled talking points CNN or MSNBC spew. Very often, you bring your own thoughts and reason to the discussion which is more than I can say for MANY liberals I know or discuss with.

In regard to your categories, I have no idea. I havent researched pro-vaccinations vs. anti-vaccination people, where they live, what their religion is and who they support. I'm sure there are studies and reports that paint anti-vaxxers as crazy people... just as there are other studies and reports that would make them look logical.

Honestly, I dont give a rotten rats ass either way. It's not for me to decide or make a judgment on what someone believes or doesnt believe.

I very much believe in "Live and Let Live".

If someone wants to get vaccinated, they should. If someone doesnt want to, they shouldnt. If someone thinks that schools are dangerous to send their kids to, they should keep them home and do virtual learning. If someone feels their kids should be in school, around other kids and exposing their bodies to germs so they can continue to build their immune system THEN THEY SHOULD!

I am not an anti-vaxxer. I've gotten vaccines for all sorts of things in the past. I got the flu vaccine for the last 5 years as a protection for my children. I never got it before I had kids and now that they are old enough and have strong immune systems, I may never get it again.

I may even get the Covid vaccine one day.

What I have adamantly objected to is the mantra that "...everyone should get vaccinated and wear masks... because they work..." because right now at this very moment, that statement is untrue. Vaccinated people still get the virus and still spread the virus. My daughter wore a mask all day everyday in school last year and SHE caught Covid from one of her classmates.

Vaccines and masks ARE NOT EFFECTIVE at preventing infection or spreading the virus. That is 100% FACT.

Now, if I choose to get vaccinated in order to protect myself and my family from potential severe symptoms of the virus, thats a totally different story., If someone wants to tell me "...hey man, you should get vaccinated because if nothing else, it may help to lessen your symptoms if you catch it..." I would agree with, as it appears that most vaccinated individuals have had lesser symptoms.

Ok, I can buy that and if I feel that is reason enough for me to get vaccinated then I will make that choice FOR MYSELF.

But nobody can or will convince me that I should get vaccinated in order to prevent infection or spread. Until they develop a vaccine that actually prevents infection or spread, (which they cant do because they do not have that ability or they would have eradicated the common cold by now) I will make medical decisions for what I choose to put into my body based on my own personal feelings... not what someone else tells me.

 

[rkrantz]

Sorry, your logic escaped me. I argued that businesses and individuals should be able to self impose stricter safety measures for themselves than the minimum safety measures established by the government. Governments should not prohibit these extra safety precautions.

Do you agree or disagree with that?

Businesses do this all the time.

"No shoes, no shirt, no service" is the simplest form of this.

Some restaurants have a dress code. Individuals who do not wish to wear shoes or shirts can take their business next door. I agree that businesses should be able to dictate if they want to make patrons wear masks. And then patrons can make a decision of if they wish to spend their money there or not.

DeSantis wants to tell the cruise lines that they cannot require proof of vaccination. Cruise lines can then choose to take their business up the road to Georgia or South Carolina if they like... or they can decide to let their customers spend their money on a competing cruise line.

It all still comes down to a choice. Businesses have it and customers have it.

 

[cortez55403]

Thanks Cortez. I appreciate your discussions as well because they arent the typical hyperbole fueled talking points CNN or MSNBC spew. Very often, you bring your own thoughts and reason to the discussion which is more than I can say for MANY liberals I know or discuss with.

In regard to your categories, I have no idea. I havent researched pro-vaccinations vs. anti-vaccination people, where they live, what their religion is and who they support. I'm sure there are studies and reports that paint anti-vaxxers as crazy people... just as there are other studies and reports that would make them look logical.

Honestly, I dont give a rotten rats ass either way. It's not for me to decide or make a judgment on what someone believes or doesnt believe.

I very much believe in "Live and Let Live".

If someone wants to get vaccinated, they should. If someone doesnt want to, they shouldnt. If someone thinks that schools are dangerous to send their kids to, they should keep them home and do virtual learning. If someone feels their kids should be in school, around other kids and exposing their bodies to germs so they can continue to build their immune system THEN THEY SHOULD!

I am not an anti-vaxxer. I've gotten vaccines for all sorts of things in the past. I got the flu vaccine for the last 5 years as a protection for my children. I never got it before I had kids and now that they are old enough and have strong immune systems, I may never get it again.

I may even get the Covid vaccine one day.

What I have adamantly objected to is the mantra that "...everyone should get vaccinated and wear masks... because they work..." because right now at this very moment, that statement is untrue. Vaccinated people still get the virus and still spread the virus. My daughter wore a mask all day everyday in school last year and SHE caught Covid from one of her classmates.

Vaccines and masks ARE NOT EFFECTIVE at preventing infection or spreading the virus. That is 100% FACT.

Now, if I choose to get vaccinated in order to protect myself and my family from potential severe symptoms of the virus, thats a totally different story., If someone wants to tell me "...hey man, you should get vaccinated because if nothing else, it may help to lessen your symptoms if you catch it..." I would agree with, as it appears that most vaccinated individuals have had lesser symptoms.

Ok, I can buy that and if I feel that is reason enough for me to get vaccinated then I will make that choice FOR MYSELF.

But nobody can or will convince me that I should get vaccinated in order to prevent infection or spread. Until they develop a vaccine that actually prevents infection or spread, (which they cant do because they do not have that ability or they would have eradicated the common cold by now) I will make medical decisions for what I choose to put into my body based on my own personal feelings... not what someone else tells me.

Thanks RK. Appreciate your articulation of your rationale against you personally taking the Covid vaccine at this time.

FYI, Because I live in a type of liberal bubble, I have only one friend who has refused to get a vaccine. She is a Texas-based devotee of Trump and Ted Cruz who was upset that her 3 adult daughters got vaccinated. She is afraid that the vaccine will make them sterile.

She gave in this week and got the J+J vaccine only because her youngest daughter is getting married next week in Europe (Croatia). No vaccine = no entry into Croatia = no attendance at the wedding. She very, very reluctantly took the shot!

 

[rkrantz]

Thanks RK. Appreciate your articulation of your rationale against you personally taking the Covid vaccine at this time.

FYI, Because I live in a type of liberal bubble, I have only one friend who has refused to get a vaccine. She is a Texas-based devotee of Trump and Ted Cruz who was upset that her 3 adult daughters got vaccinated. She is afraid that the vaccine will make them sterile.

She gave in this week and got the J+J vaccine only because her youngest daughter is getting married next week in Europe (Croatia). No vaccine = no entry into Croatia = no attendance at the wedding. She very, very reluctantly took the shot!

And being reluctant to take the shot, but ultimately CHOOSING to take the shot is what this is all about.

I, too, am reluctant to take the shot. I fear long term side effects 10-20 years from now. While my days of making babies are over, who knows what other kinds of issues may come from this.

Millions of people have ZERO reluctance to get the vaccine. And will continuously line up for more if Fauci and the CDC tell them to do so.

Your friend, like me, is faced with a choice to get the vaccine or not. She made her decision as will I.

But we werent forced to do it. And that is where I would take issue. Hopefully it never comes to that... but looking at the amount of power and authority the Government has taken from The People in the last 12 months... I highly doubt they will choose to stop now.

I pray I'm wrong.

 

[vivijane]

Lol there’s always a difference when you’re a hypocrite. Are you really that dumb that you would say in your post,

“Further, he is restricting the free market….businesses can demand a vaccination or not. The passengers can get a vaccination or not. None of the governor’s business. Let the free market roll!”

and then try to say that it is in fact the governors business to impose restrictions. You literally said “businesses can demand vaccination or not” none of the governors business. If it’s none of the governors business to require or not require vaccination it’s also none of their business to require or not require masks or capacity limits or negative tests.

You’re a real bright one if you think that government can not only impose minimum requirements but also maximum.

Nailed it.....
Censorship......

 

[vivijane]

Sorry, your logic escaped me. I argued that businesses and individuals should be able to self impose stricter safety measures for themselves than the minimum safety measures established by the government. Governments should not prohibit these extra safety precautions.

Do you agree or disagree with that?

LESS Government.....Period....

 

[grbcane]

The Governor prohibited cruise lines that use Florida ports from requiring vaccines of all passengers. Norwegian Cruises sued to overturn that prohibition and won preliminary relief today. DeSantis will appeal.

This issue has been previously debated in the Lounge. IMO, DeSantis way overstepped his limited authority over interstate commerce. Further, he is restricting the free market….businesses can demand a vaccination or not. The passengers can get a vaccination or not. None of the governor’s business. Let the free market roll!

Jump in!

It’s never been about the science, it’s about compliance comrades.

 

[grbcane]