Don't know about you but I'm getting tired of all this Ukraine money

[HJCane]

We passed 14.5 billion already and gave 800mm of weapons several times I believe. Now the Biden Admin is seeking close to 40 Billion more and wants Congress to pass it ASAP.

I have questions;
What is Europe doing? It is in their backyard.
How are we holding Ukraine accountable for these funds?

I saw Jill Biden ( the wife of our President and unelected) visit Ukraine this past weekend underground in a bunker while U2 played music WTF?

I am in favor of supporting Ukraine but this seems to me to be a loose unorganized manner of doing it. In other words no real strategy in place.

I also don't see the USA taking the lead here on ending this conflict. One would think that would be first and foremost in any strategy.

A bit too loosy goosy for my liking.

 

[NO.SHORECANE]

They started way too late and now trying to play catch up.

 

[HJCane]

They started way too late and now trying to play catch up.

But what is the PLAN? What is the PLAN to end the conflict? Weapons are great peace is better.
We are not the bank. We are supposed to be leaders.

 

[central17]

So much to unpack in Ukraine. In no particuliar order:
1) $55B in weapons (and contractor largesse, political kickbacks etc.) Would the $86B in military gear that Brandon gave to the Taliban have been better used by Ukraine?
2) pSAKi says Brandon is mad about leaks that the UtS helped Ukraine sink the Russian ship. Yeah!!!!, LEAKERS SUCK and should be punished?????
3) re: Bono, now Zalensky is asking for Lady GaGa to come play in Ukraine. Is he leading a war effort or planning a summer concert series?
4) Media keeps banging the drum that Ukraine is winning, as they show maps of the eastern and southern territory the Russians have taken. Keep showing destroyed building and reporting on deaths in Ukraine. Yes, Russia is taking losses but the country of Ukraine is being devasted for generations.
5) Ukrainian spring harvest is not making it to the world. More global food shortages and price increases are around the corner.
6) Re: the affect of Biden's sanctions on Russia. US gas prices and food prices are skyrocketing. I have not heard of baby formula shortages in Russia? But yes, some Oligarch's wife is really pissed she can't get a new Chanel bag.

This is a natural result of an incompetent administration that is implementing flawed policy.

 

[ddimaggio]

So much to unpack in Ukraine. In no particuliar order:
1) $55B in weapons (and contractor largesse, political kickbacks etc.) Would the $86B in military gear that Brandon gave to the Taliban have been better used by Ukraine?
2) pSAKi says Brandon is mad about leaks that the UtS helped Ukraine sink the Russian ship. Yeah!!!!, LEAKERS SUCK and should be punished?????
3) re: Bono, now Zalensky is asking for Lady GaGa to come play in Ukraine. Is he leading a war effort or planning a summer concert series?
4) Media keeps banging the drum that Ukraine is winning, as they show maps of the eastern and southern territory the Russians have taken. Keep showing destroyed building and reporting on deaths in Ukraine. Yes, Russia is taking losses but the country of Ukraine is being devasted for generations.
5) Ukrainian spring harvest is not making it to the world. More global food shortages and price increases are around the corner.
6) Re: the affect of Biden's sanctions on Russia. US gas prices and food prices are skyrocketing. I have not heard of baby formula shortages in Russia? But yes, some Oligarch's wife is really pissed she can't get a new Chanel bag.

This is a natural result of an incompetent administration that is implementing flawed policy.

Truth
Your # 4 is particularly problematic
It’s as of the networks , mostly the left , but not exclusively, is pushing propaganda
Yeah we are winning!
Russia is losing !
Putin is hated in Russia!
Russia is threatening NATO !

All likely untrue

The democrats are doing what they do
Using a crisis for political purposes
They are feeding the war as it distracts from our internal problems.

They are interested in fighting a proxy war with Russia . It may stem from their hate of Putin for allegedly working to defeat Hillary. ( The Trump/ Russia hoax)

Is there a real threat of Russia invading Poland or any other NATO country? No
No one has identified a real win in Ukraine for anyone other than politicians and the defense industry. The propaganda includes the delusional position that Russia will be driven out of the Donbas and Crimea . Not in our lifetime . Not so long as they have Nukes.

What hasn’t happened is for NATO to take the lead and propose actual settlement options. It’s their continent, not ours . Why are we the lead in providing $ and weapons ?
No doubt what Russia did in invading was horrible. The West , including the USA , was aware of the Russian’s concerns and issues prior to the invasion. The concerns were dismissed.
Russia invaded . Ukraine is being destroyed
Russia is still making rockets and bombs . They will continue to deliver destruction
We will continue to spend our tax $ to continue the carnage. More people will die
And Fake Doctor Jill Biden will go have have lunch in Ukraine.
As Kurt Vonnegut said
SO IT GOES

 

[irwinn]

So much to unpack in Ukraine. In no particuliar order:
1) $55B in weapons (and contractor largesse, political kickbacks etc.) Would the $86B in military gear that Brandon gave to the Taliban have been better used by Ukraine?
2) pSAKi says Brandon is mad about leaks that the UtS helped Ukraine sink the Russian ship. Yeah!!!!, LEAKERS SUCK and should be punished?????
3) re: Bono, now Zalensky is asking for Lady GaGa to come play in Ukraine. Is he leading a war effort or planning a summer concert series?
4) Media keeps banging the drum that Ukraine is winning, as they show maps of the eastern and southern territory the Russians have taken. Keep showing destroyed building and reporting on deaths in Ukraine. Yes, Russia is taking losses but the country of Ukraine is being devasted for generations.
5) Ukrainian spring harvest is not making it to the world. More global food shortages and price increases are around the corner.
6) Re: the affect of Biden's sanctions on Russia. US gas prices and food prices are skyrocketing. I have not heard of baby formula shortages in Russia? But yes, some Oligarch's wife is really pissed she can't get a new Chanel bag.

This is a natural result of an incompetent administration that is implementing flawed policy.

"This is a natural result of an incompetent administration that is implementing flawed policy."

But he's consistent:

Border Control FAILURE

Energy Supply FAILURE

Covid Control (Scientifically) FAILURE

Inflation FAILURE

Race Relations FAILURE

Truth & Honesty FAILURE

Common Sense *

*Sold out. Expect to get huge delivery in November 2022

 

[cortez55403]

HJ and friends,

You are smart guys and can figure out this Ukraine stuff. Consider:

Is Putin achieving his goals?

1. Quick capture of Kiev? No.
2. Welcomed by Ukrainians? Hell no.
3. Fall of Zelenski’s government? No
4. Demonstration of Russian military might? No
5. Splintering of NATO? No. Finland and Sweden might expand NATO
6. Minimal casualties? No. 15,000 dead. That‘s more dead Russians than suffered in 10 years of fighting in Afghanistan.
7. Minimal financial strain? No. Sanctions caused worst Russian economic quarter in modern history. And, Europe is acting to end its reliance on Russian oil and gas.

Is the US achieving its goals?

1. Save Ukraine from annihilation? Yes
2. Unify NATO to oppose Russia? Yes
3. Encourage Europe to lessen and maybe eliminate its dependence on Russian fuels? Yes
4. As Ukraine successfully resists, increase aid to weaken Russian military? Yes
5. No American lives lost. Yes
6. Puncture Russian image of a strong military? Yes
7. Expand NATO? Yes, if Finland and Sweden join.
8. Weaken Putin‘s hold on power In Russia? Maybe
9. Send message to China that the West will resist military aggression? Yes

Our exit from Afghanistan was a mess and an embarrassment. So far, our handling of the invasion of Ukraine has been masterful.

 

[grbcane]

 

[irwinn]

HJ and friends,

You are smart guys and can figure out this Ukraine stuff. Consider:

Is Putin achieving his goals?

1. Quick capture of Kiev? No.
2. Welcomed by Ukrainians? Hell no.
3. Fall of Zelenski’s government? No
4. Demonstration of Russian military might? No
5. Splintering of NATO? No. Finland and Sweden might expand NATO
6. Minimal casualties? No. 15,000 dead. That‘s more dead Russians than suffered in 10 years of fighting in Afghanistan.
7. Minimal financial strain? No. Sanctions caused worst Russian economic quarter in modern history. And, Europe is acting to end its reliance on Russian oil and gas.

Is the US achieving its goals?

1. Save Ukraine from annihilation? Yes
2. Unify NATO to oppose Russia? Yes
3. Encourage Europe to lessen and maybe eliminate its dependence on Russian fuels? Yes
4. As Ukraine successfully resists, increase aid to weaken Russian military? Yes
5. No American lives lost. Yes
6. Puncture Russian image of a strong military? Yes
7. Expand NATO? Yes, if Finland and Sweden join.
8. Weaken Putin‘s hold on power In Russia? Maybe
9. Send message to China that the West will resist military aggression? Yes

Our exit from Afghanistan was a mess and an embarrassment. So far, our handling of the invasion of Ukraine has been masterful.

Thanks for posting real thoughts in a manner that opens discussions. Many quality points scored here, especially since there is no fallback position of '...but Trump'...

Your claim of masterful handling remains to be seen. We actually haven't the slightest idea how and where our aid is being effectively employed. Rather than doubt your conclusion, I'll root for it to be the 'Emes' (The Truth).

 

[central17]

HJ and friends,

You are smart guys and can figure out this Ukraine stuff. Consider:

Is Putin achieving his goals?

1. Quick capture of Kiev? No.
2. Welcomed by Ukrainians? Hell no.
3. Fall of Zelenski’s government? No
4. Demonstration of Russian military might? No
5. Splintering of NATO? No. Finland and Sweden might expand NATO
6. Minimal casualties? No. 15,000 dead. That‘s more dead Russians than suffered in 10 years of fighting in Afghanistan.
7. Minimal financial strain? No. Sanctions caused worst Russian economic quarter in modern history. And, Europe is acting to end its reliance on Russian oil and gas.
uu
Is the US achieving its goals?

1. Save Ukraine from annihilation? Yes
2. Unify NATO to oppose Russia? Yes
3. Encourage Europe to lessen and maybe eliminate its dependence on Russian fuels? Yes
4. As Ukraine successfully resists, increase aid to weaken Russian military? Yes
5. No American lives lost. Yes
6. Puncture Russian image of a strong military? Yes
7. Expand NATO? Yes, if Finland and Sweden join.
8. Weaken Putin‘s hold on power In Russia? Maybe
9. Send message to China that the West will resist military aggression? Yes

Our exit from Afghanistan was a mess and an embarrassment. So far, our handling of the invasion of Ukraine has been masterful.

Successful from the view of a 85" flat screen in California while sipping a glass of Cabernet and reading Politico. Not so great sitting in a bomb shattered building knowing you have relatives and friends dead and crippled. This war is reality in the Ukraine. It is a video game in DC, NYC and San Francisco.

 

[HJCane]

HJ and friends,

You are smart guys and can figure out this Ukraine stuff. Consider:

Is Putin achieving his goals?

1. Quick capture of Kiev? No.
2. Welcomed by Ukrainians? Hell no.
3. Fall of Zelenski’s government? No
4. Demonstration of Russian military might? No
5. Splintering of NATO? No. Finland and Sweden might expand NATO
6. Minimal casualties? No. 15,000 dead. That‘s more dead Russians than suffered in 10 years of fighting in Afghanistan.
7. Minimal financial strain? No. Sanctions caused worst Russian economic quarter in modern history. And, Europe is acting to end its reliance on Russian oil and gas.

Is the US achieving its goals?

1. Save Ukraine from annihilation? Yes
2. Unify NATO to oppose Russia? Yes
3. Encourage Europe to lessen and maybe eliminate its dependence on Russian fuels? Yes
4. As Ukraine successfully resists, increase aid to weaken Russian military? Yes
5. No American lives lost. Yes
6. Puncture Russian image of a strong military? Yes
7. Expand NATO? Yes, if Finland and Sweden join.
8. Weaken Putin‘s hold on power In Russia? Maybe
9. Send message to China that the West will resist military aggression? Yes

Our exit from Afghanistan was a mess and an embarrassment. So far, our handling of the invasion of Ukraine has been masterful.

If you say so bro.........

 

[NO.SHORECANE]

HJ and friends,

You are smart guys and can figure out this Ukraine stuff. Consider:

Is Putin achieving his goals?

1. Quick capture of Kiev? No.
2. Welcomed by Ukrainians? Hell no.
3. Fall of Zelenski’s government? No
4. Demonstration of Russian military might? No
5. Splintering of NATO? No. Finland and Sweden might expand NATO
6. Minimal casualties? No. 15,000 dead. That‘s more dead Russians than suffered in 10 years of fighting in Afghanistan.
7. Minimal financial strain? No. Sanctions caused worst Russian economic quarter in modern history. And, Europe is acting to end its reliance on Russian oil and gas.

Is the US achieving its goals?

1. Save Ukraine from annihilation? Yes
2. Unify NATO to oppose Russia? Yes
3. Encourage Europe to lessen and maybe eliminate its dependence on Russian fuels? Yes
4. As Ukraine successfully resists, increase aid to weaken Russian military? Yes
5. No American lives lost. Yes
6. Puncture Russian image of a strong military? Yes
7. Expand NATO? Yes, if Finland and Sweden join.
8. Weaken Putin‘s hold on power In Russia? Maybe
9. Send message to China that the West will resist military aggression? Yes

Our exit from Afghanistan was a mess and an embarrassment. So far, our handling of the invasion of Ukraine has been masterful.

Not quite. Counting on sanctions to deter invasion-wrong. Parts of Ukraine have been annihilated and more are probably coming Tens of thousands of Ukrainians killed and maimed. Russia still making hundreds of millions a day selling energy. Vast portions of infrastructure destroyed. Weaken Putin's hand- conjecture. Zelensky had to demand heavy military equipment from us. We're headed in the right direction in terms of help after two and a months. Masterful ? Hmmm

 

[dolcane]

We passed 14.5 billion already and gave 800mm of weapons several times I believe. Now the Biden Admin is seeking close to 40 Billion more and wants Congress to pass it ASAP.

I have questions;
What is Europe doing? It is in their backyard.
How are we holding Ukraine accountable for these funds?

I saw Jill Biden ( the wife of our President and unelected) visit Ukraine this past weekend underground in a bunker while U2 played music WTF?

I am in favor of supporting Ukraine but this seems to me to be a loose unorganized manner of doing it. In other words no real strategy in place.

I also don't see the USA taking the lead here on ending this conflict. One would think that would be first and foremost in any strategy.

A bit too loosy goosy for my liking.

Joe will be assigning Hunter the job of watching how the money in Ukraine is spent.

 

[cortez55403]

If you say so bro.........

Thanks. I don’t subscribe to the new, populist, isolationist brand of the GOP pushed by Rand Paul, JD Vance and Tucker Carlson. I prefer the more muscular GOP foreign policy approach of Ronald Reagan and George HW Bush.

 

[cortez55403]

View embedded media

GRB. Sorry, I do not know Pedro Gonzalez. Who is he?

Thanks.

 

[cortez55403]

Successful from the view of a 85" flat screen in California while sipping a glass of Cabernet and reading Politico. Not so great sitting in a bomb shattered building knowing you have relatives and friends dead and crippled. This war is reality in the Ukraine. It is a video game in DC, NYC and San Francisco.

Are you advocating that Ukraine surrender? Not sure what your position is.

 

[ddimaggio]

Thanks. I don’t subscribe to the new, populist, isolationist brand of the GOP pushed by Rand Paul, JD Vance and Tucker Carlson. I prefer the more muscular GOP foreign policy approach of Ronald Reagan and George HW Bush.

Yes the muscular approach that brought us Viet Nam, Kuwait , Iraq and Afghanistan
At least Trump was honest. He said what’s the benefit to us ? Can we take the oil as a payment for our services?
What actual national interest is being served by arming Ukraine and spending our tax $$?
The whole Poland is next argument is nonsense propaganda.

Brandon falsely claims that our economic misery is being caused by this war . If so why are we intent on prolonging the fight and funding this carnage ?
Sure we need to be firm with Russia
But we have enough problems at home without having to look for foreign adventures

 

[grbcane]

GRB. Sorry, I do not know Pedro Gonzalez. Who is he?

Thanks.

Some journalist I know nothing about.

 

[cortez55403]

Yes the muscular approach that brought us Viet Nam, Kuwait , Iraq and Afghanistan
At least Trump was honest. He said what’s the benefit to us ? Can we take the oil as a payment for our services?
What actual national interest is being served by arming Ukraine and spending our tax $$?
The whole Poland is next argument is nonsense propaganda.

Brandon falsely claims that our economic misery is being caused by this war . If so why are we intent on prolonging the fight and funding this carnage ?
Sure we need to be firm with Russia
But we have enough problems at home without having to look for foreign adventures

Thanks.

I praised Reagan and GHW Bush.

Vietnam belongs to Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon. Mistake

Kuwait was justified and well done by Bush Sr. Just can’t let one country invade another without consequences

Iraq = Bush Jr.. Huge mistake

Afghanistan was justified but poorly managed. What were our goals after initial success? Bush Jr and Obama in charge.

US interests? We have enabled and led the Pax Americana for the last 70 years. It worked. The Berlin Wall came down and the Soviet Union collapsed. Stepping away from that global leadership role encourages dictators/aggressors to attack other countries. That destabilizes the world, hurting us and near everyone else.

DJT is a neo isolationist with no understanding of history or global affairs. His deference to Putin and undermining of NATO were misjudgments and classic short term thinking.

 

[HJCane]

Thanks. I don’t subscribe to the new, populist, isolationist brand of the GOP pushed by Rand Paul, JD Vance and Tucker Carlson. I prefer the more muscular GOP foreign policy approach of Ronald Reagan and George HW Bush.

So boots on the ground? Drop a nuke?

 

[cortez55403]

So boots on the ground? Drop a nuke?

No, that’s Putin’s exact strategy, not mine.

Should we we just shudder and look away? I don’t like appeasing thugs and ignoring the unprovoked invasion of a country by a more powerful country. Only a weak USA would do that.

 

[central17]

Are you advocating that Ukraine surrender? Not sure what your position is.

Sometimes you need to live to fight another day. Ukraine and NATO were not prepared for this entire situation. The west put itself in a compromised position when it gave up energy independence and gave Russia control of its energy/economy. The president of the US was compromised when he and Hunter took money from both sides. And when they continue to be paid by China (art anyone?). Roosevelt did not take money from Japan or Germany. Ukraine compromised itself with its rampant corruption. Who knows what skeletons and bio weapons are rattling around there?

The Ukrainian people have proven their mettle. Russia will not be able to maintain control. When the Ukraine, and the US get new leadership, they can enlist NATO. Hopefully Russia will implode and the next regime sees the falacy of this. Biden has proven twice that he is no match for Putin. When a strong leader emerges in the US in 2024, then a real Ukraine can emerge. As long as Biden is president the best case is a Syria type situation of a country bombed to rubble. The worst case is nuclear.

 

[cortez55403]

Admire you, 17.

But this take on Ukraine seems unbalanced. The idea that a strongman GOP president would cure our ills….wishful.

 

[hawaiian cane]

We are not only giving Ukraine military aid but we are also giving Ukrainian refugees priority and at our southern border. I feel for Ukrainians fleeing their homeland separating families and losing their homes but what about those who have been waiting their turn at the southern border for more than a year? In early march the Biden administration announced they will allow 100,000 Ukrainian refugees into the US. There were also Russians at the border trying to enter the US. Not sure how soon they will have the chance to be American citizens but what if a number of them choose to return to Ukraine and Russia? The US will foot the bill for their trip back to Eastern Europe. It will be all on our backs.

 

[cems52]

They started way too late and now trying to play catch up.

Too late? Aren't the Russians getting their asses kicked?

 

[6882]

Thanks.

I praised Reagan and GHW Bush.

Vietnam belongs to Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon. Mistake

Kuwait was justified and well done by Bush Sr. Just can’t let one country invade another without consequences

Iraq = Bush Jr.. Huge mistake

Afghanistan was justified but poorly managed. What were our goals after initial success? Bush Jr and Obama in charge.

US interests? We have enabled and led the Pax Americana for the last 70 years. It worked. The Berlin Wall came down and the Soviet Union collapsed. Stepping away from that global leadership role encourages dictators/aggressors to attack other countries. That destabilizes the world, hurting us and near everyone else.

DJT is a neo isolationist with no understanding of history or global affairs. His deference to Putin and undermining of NATO were misjudgments and classic short term thinking.

You can’t put iraq squarely on bush jr when it was all the dems that coincided. It was unanimous. The intelligence said saddam had wmd’s and that’s what everyone went with.

on a kind of side note, do you really believe that the world would be a safer place with saddam still in power? At the end of the day, it happened. This guy was literally openly paying ommage to the familys of the 911 attackers and giving sanctuary to the taliban.

now we’re giving iran up to the taliban and puting them on the honer system.

 

[6882]

No, that’s Putin’s exact strategy, not mine.

Should we we just shudder and look away? I don’t like appeasing thugs and ignoring the unprovoked invasion of a country by a more powerful country. Only a weak USA would do that.

**** that! Putins ass is grass and it’s just a matter of time. Can’t help but think there’s a whole hell of a lot more people coming after him than he realizes. Some of which, his own people. This pos is about to be hanging from a square some where, bank on that.

have you seen the pics of el duce? It’s not a pretty pic and history repeats itself.

russia and ukrain have such potential too. Anyway you look at this situation, it’s a tragedy.

 

[HJCane]

No, that’s Putin’s exact strategy, not mine.

Should we we just shudder and look away? I don’t like appeasing thugs and ignoring the unprovoked invasion of a country by a more powerful country. Only a weak USA would do that.

How about we LEAD and try to broker a peace agreement? How would that be?

 

[cems52]

How about we LEAD and try to broker a peace agreement? How would that be?

Open your eyes. We are leading and soon Putin will get what most dictators deserve, extinction.

 

[HJCane]

Open your eyes. We are leading and soon Putin will get what most dictators deserve, extinction.

If he doesn't go out the door dropping nukes. Thats a little different than kicking and screaming.

 

[central17]

Admire you, 17.

But this take on Ukraine seems unbalanced. The idea that a strongman GOP president would cure our ills….wishful.

Cortez,
I did not write "strongman". I wrote "strong" as in competent and not compromised by having personally benefited from dealings with both Russia and Ukraine.

 

[cems52]

If he doesn't go out the door dropping nukes. Thats a little different than kicking and screaming.

Don't be bamboozled into thinking that POS would use nukes. That’s what he's counting on, weak minded Trump supporters who are afraid to defend democracy. Remember, he also has a family.

 

[HJCane]

Don't be bamboozled into thinking that POS would use nukes. That’s what he's counting on, weak minded Trump supporters who are afraid to defend democracy. Remember, he also has a family.

Weird I seem to remember the rockets stopped flying out of North Korea when Trump was President.

 

[central17]

Don't be bamboozled into thinking that POS would use nukes. That’s what he's counting on, weak minded Trump supporters who are afraid to defend democracy. Remember, he also has a family.

cems, so you know the mind of Putin? Are you saying deep down he's a good guy and can be trusted to understand the horrors of use of nuclear weapons? Are you saying that Putin would accept an embarassing defeat with NATO forces on Russian soil, maybe turn himself over to a war crimes tribunal, but not use nuclear weapons?

Thank you for your input Mr. National Security Advisor cems.

 

[cems52]

cems, so you know the mind of Putin? Are you saying deep down he's a good guy and can be trusted to understand the horrors of use of nuclear weapons? Are you saying that Putin would accept an embarassing defeat with NATO forces on Russian soil, maybe turn himself over to a war crimes tribunal, but not use nuclear weapons?

Thank you for your input Mr. National Security Advisor cems.

You're welcomed!! As I was saying, only weak minded Trump supporters would allow a bully like Putin to reek havoc across Europe. The man will not stop at Ukraine. My hope is for Ukraine to push the Russians completely off their land, pre 2014. We should do all we have to do to stop Putin's advances.

 

[cems52]

Weird I seem to remember the rockets stopped flying out of North Korea when Trump was President.

Stop with your nonsense about Trump keeping world peace. The man was a tool of that punk in NK and Putin.

 

[central17]

You're welcomed!! As I was saying, only weak minded Trump supporters would allow a bully like Putin to reek havoc across Europe. The man will not stop at Ukraine. My hope is for Ukraine to push the Russians completely off their land, pre 2014. We should do all we have to do to stop Putin's advances.

I think we may agree on land goals.
Just to be clear, you want Russia to withdraw from all land taken after the Bidens started soliciting and accepting bribes from both sides?

 

[cems52]

I think we may agree on land goals.
Just to be clear, you want Russia to withdraw from all land taken after the Bidens started soliciting and accepting bribes from both sides?

That was good. Lol