You can't communicate with liberals, socialist etc. They do not feel the love for the great country they live in. They would be just as happy living in Canada or Mexico.
National Anthem
- Thread starter gchaneyjr
- Start date
Just so you know, even in the Military you can be in the chow hall eating while they are raising the flag in the morning or lowering it in the evening but if you are outside at that moment you are expected to stand at attention, face the direction of the nearest flag and hold your salute until it is completed. The people eating are not considered to be disrespecting the flag.
Exactly or being like these few selfish players saying look at me look at me. A team is a team, wonder what some of those other players think of their teammates.
This is the greatest Country on the planet but it is imperfect and will always be imperfect. There is no perfection. I was born in 1961 and have seen HUGE positive movement in civil rights for Blacks and minorities in this country. Still have a way to go but we will always have a way to go in many areas. How many players went to South and West side of Chicago this offseason? There were 12 killed and 70 shot in 1 WEEKEND black on black. Want to talk injustice? It' is absurd something like this could happen and frankly freaking sad.
I'm done with this conversation. If these displays offend even 5-10% of the paying customers then it's bad business. The debate as to the social injustice in this Country has merit. The offending of customers will never solve it. Say I'm wrong.
So let's dissect this answer, because it looks like I stroke a chord and dare I say "triggered" a reaction (I hate those stupid politicized labels).
The majority of the country that watches football doesn't want to see these overpaid morons kneeling on the sideline.
Would love to see the data for this. Revenues are up for the NFL. Ratings across all TV are down due to chord-cutting, yet the NFL remains far an away the highest rated property on TV. But let's concede that the majority of folks don't want to see the players kneel. (BTW there's an argument to be made that NFL players are underpaid based on revenues, contracts that are not guaranteed, and average length of career, but that's a story for another day).
These guys are kneeling for so called persecution by police.
Incorrect (for the most part). Each player has his/her own reasons, but the one that is mostly brought up is systematic racial injustice. A portion of that are some incidents revolving police actions that have been shown to be driven by profiling, and have had fatal consequences. But the main point of systematic racial injustice protesting is bringing to the public's attention the discrepency in the experience of minority Americans vs. majority Americans (including the experience in the criminal justice system, the educational system, the labor system, etc.)
I guess you like Kapernicks Pigs socks he wears.
Not at all, I thought it was tasteless and disrespectful. As was his Che Guevara shirt.
Why don't you guys go kneel for all of the officers protecting us being killed by these criminals instead of disrespecting our country and flag.
Which criminals, the NFL players? The vast majority of NFL players are outstanding citizens who contribute millions of dollars annually to charity. Or black people? In my experience, the vast majority of black people are good, hard working folks that just like you and me are trying to live their lives under the ideals of our country: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
As far as kneeling for police officers, I do buy my brother in law (police chief for a local department) a case of beer any time I go to his house as a thank you. We have great discussions about this and many other topics.
Maybe you and these players should go to Chicago and kneel there.
Love Chicago! Great town, deep dished pizza is my favorite. Had a blast during the UM vs. Notre Dame game a couple of years ago, stayed downtown with a ton of Canes fans. Wrigley field is the best ballpark in America.
History has also shown that overtly patriotic statements, without questioning and analyzing of ones government and social structures, is very dangerous.
Nobody loved playing the anthem more than Adolf during the Third Reich. Augusto Pinochet blared the Chilean anthem every time he could. Kim Yung Un, his daddy, and his grand daddy love playing the anthem and FORCING his people to stand for it. Good ol' Vlad will not have one single public assembly without having everyone standing in respect for the Russian anthem.
Patriotism is important. Unbridled, unquestioned patriotism for the sake of "tradition" is very dangerous.
You are not the only paying customer. on that note, it was us (the people who opposed this great country allowing black and brown to be shot down by those that we PAY to protect us) that started the NFL protest. you slick willies took it and now trying to make it your own. LOL
But remember who are the people providing your form entertainment NFL and College. I can go to my neighborhood park and watch optimist play and get the same excitement and joy. Can you?
This takes me back to what I said before. If you tell me why you do something, I look at your credibility and whether or not you are a sociopath. Then, I decide what to believe. I don't necessarily side with those that say things the loudest, or make sweeping generalizations. The gift of being able to think critically is one that is too often overlooked.
So true. The public discourse has become an echo chamber of politicized terms seen on TV, and there is so little individual thought and critical analysis.
Do I kneel for the anthem? No
Do I respect the military? Yes
Do I support police? Yes
Do I agree with the NFL players chosen method of protesting? No, but respect it
Do I support the NFL players view points about racial injustice? Yes, the data is clear on the differences in the American experience based on racial and socio-economical factors
See, it's not one thing or the other, you can have a nuance viewpoint that doesn't have to parrot CNN or Fox News
@irwinn I mean, if we were more educated we could distinguish between a real person and a Russian bot/propaganda on social media, yet the data shows that most Americans do not know how to source their news and believe whatever crosses their timelines.
So in a way, we are already speaking Russian.
The intolerance of tolerance is straight fascism, and looking at the tenets of our founding fathers, not what they were going after. But, this whole discussion should be in the lounge. I hate mixing politics and football.
Forced patriotism is communism. I guess people like you are cool with that. You guys should move to Cuba since you like that way of thinking.
Where were all these players during the offseason????????????????????, when they can actually do something about their concerns for social justice???????????????????
EXACTLY, its all for show.
I remember the Mexico Olympics 68?, where medalists were stripped of their medals for raising their fist during the National Anthem, just like last night.
Sorry, stop protesting and ACTUALLY do something.
PLAY BALL
EXACTLY, its all for show.
I remember the Mexico Olympics 68?, where medalists were stripped of their medals for raising their fist during the National Anthem, just like last night.
Sorry, stop protesting and ACTUALLY do something.
PLAY BALL
If you don't understand why people knew during the anthem then there is no helping you. Even more if you let their actions dictate yours then you are part of the problem not the solution to our countries problems.
It is quite simple.
The workplace, when you are on someone else's dime and time, isn't the place to protest.
Period. Hell, you are even wearing the uniform of your employer while you are doing it. Selfish and self serving.
Stand on the corner, in the street, on TV, on radio, in the clubs, in the park, write it in the sky.....on YOUR OWN TIME and DIME. No problem.
The workplace, when you are on someone else's dime and time, isn't the place to protest.
Period. Hell, you are even wearing the uniform of your employer while you are doing it. Selfish and self serving.
Stand on the corner, in the street, on TV, on radio, in the clubs, in the park, write it in the sky.....on YOUR OWN TIME and DIME. No problem.
The players are actually out in the community, spending millions of dollars on charity and social programs, to help their communities and improving the socio-economic standing of folks (mostly children).
You don't hear about it, because it is not publicized as much and because their public awareness comes from playing football.
Your argument actually reinforces the reasons to protest. The only way you would ever hear about their issues is through their public protest.
Again, they are not regular employees. They are partners with the league, they operate under a CBA, and their job is a very public one where they are front facing figures. This is not flipping burgers at McDonald's or being a teller at a bank.
I'm guessing most of our players believe in the protests of the NFL players. So since our players probably support the kneeling should you give up your tickets? I think you should since our players most likely don't agree with your view on this.
Ridiculous.
I would run out of ink listing all the employees that are contracted under a CBA.
My flight was late the other day because the Delta pilot was protesting in the aisle. I heard they gave him a raise.
People can do what they want to do. Give your tickets up if that's what you want to do. The fact is if that makes you feel better then go ahead and do it but it doesn't change what goes on in the world or what others believe. If you knew what most of these players believed maybe you wouldn't have purchased your tickets in the first place. Not knowing doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We don't all agree with each other on every issue.
So the pilot's protest worked!
And like it or not (there's a great argument to have about the pros/cons of CBA's and Unions), you just proved my argument. A CBA partner is different than a regular employee at a regular job. 100x more so in a public position such as an NFL player
But most of the people in the concessions or bathroom at that time are paying no mind to the anthem. My point is if the teams really wanted to show how important the anthem is to them they could sacrifice 10 minutes of sales. If they were willing to do that I’d be more inclined to support a rule that forces players to stand for the anthem. Personally, I thinks both sides of this debate could do a little more to reach amicable resolution but just another consequence of the hyper partisan world we live in where compromise is nonexistent.
Sorry, you dont hear about it??????? We always here about the good doings of the NFL players. This started as a police protest, you gonna tell me the raising a black fist during the National Anthem is positive????
Yes they should protest, NOT during a national anthem
100% on point. There's no compromise, no conversation, no civility. Just division, anger, vitriol. It starts from the top and trickles all the way down.
More conversation, less condemnation
I was responding to your implication that theyre are out there and we just dont know about it. Im referring to things that players have been doing for years. I.e. hospital visits, charity work, camps, schloies etc.
Im referring to Specifically about their “social injustice” protests.
Hecht, no disrespect I havent read or heard about anything regarding that issue.
Still havent replied to my “black power” raised fist question? Do you also think that’s appropriate??? It got Olympic medal winners stripped and I believe thrown off the team.
No I see quite clearly. More importantly I can read very well but don't understand your writing.
HJ Cane.
Joe you don't have this same problem when its breast cancer awareness month. You dont tell the players to save all the Pink for the corners, radio, clubs, and park. LOL the contradiction.
Why are people so offended by this? The kneeling isn’t a personal attack on you. And here’s the thing, the protest is working! More people are talking about systematic racism. More people are getting involved with their communities. More players are donating more money. More players are meeting with Police forces to find solutions. The reason players still kneel is because you have triggered snowflakes villlifying them for bringing light to a serious problem that has been a stain on this country since the Declaration of Independence was signed.
The problem is that politicians, including our president, want this to be a divisive issue. They want people offended and triggered bc it allows them to play off emotions and secure votes. If all the triggered snowflakes in this thread took a step back and realized that this isn’t about white privilege, the military, the police, the flag, but about a large demographic of our country statistically living a much different experience of the American dream.
Stop being butthurt, and develop some empathy. I guarantee if the players were no longer called sons of bitches who needed to be kicked out of the country, you would have zero players kneeling.
The problem is that politicians, including our president, want this to be a divisive issue. They want people offended and triggered bc it allows them to play off emotions and secure votes. If all the triggered snowflakes in this thread took a step back and realized that this isn’t about white privilege, the military, the police, the flag, but about a large demographic of our country statistically living a much different experience of the American dream.
Stop being butthurt, and develop some empathy. I guarantee if the players were no longer called sons of bitches who needed to be kicked out of the country, you would have zero players kneeling.
We’ve had this discussion before, you’re well spoken on your points; but I can’t see how you don’t understand how this offends people. It hurts my mom, I’ll spare you the details, but the death of a loved one fighting for this flag drastically altered her life. I’m sure relatives of people who lost their lives feel the same. People who know what real sacrifice and bravery is, it’s not kneeling during the anthem.
I’m sorry to hear that about your mom. And I havr the utmost sympathy for her. But the problem with using the military to make the point goes both ways. An Army Ranger suggested they kneel to still show respect, plus you have countless other veterans and families of veterans saying they’re not offended and praise the protest. So if you remove the military element due to these conflicting view points, you’re left with players kneeling with their hands on their hearts bringing awareness to systematic racism. I don’t think that makes them bad people or sons of bitches who should be thrown out of the country.
Nobody is throwing anyone’s out of the country. Notwithstanding the Army ranger example the Vast vast majority of veterans are truly offended. I guess you cant understand unless you have been under enemy fire
There is simply a better time and place for protesting. IMO
Show me data that the vast majority of veterans are truly offended. This article that showed thst of 8000 veterans of Iraq and Afghan wars 43% agreed with how Trump has handled it, less than 48% who say he has not handled it well. For every veteran who is offended, I can find one who is not. So again, if you take out the military element, you’re left with football players bringing awareness to a cause that statistically plagues this country.
https://www.upi.com/Service-members-veterans-weigh-in-on-NFL-protest/8551507576037/
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