SWEDEN WAS RIGHT!

[grbcane]

Lockdowns and mask don’t work, and Sweden didn’t destroy small businesses.

Too bad we couldn’t trade Fauci for Johan Carlson.

How Sweden Triumphed over COVID

Earlier this year, Sweden’s top health official, Johan Carlson, felt obligated to tell the world how wrong everyone else was. “Some believed that it was possible to eliminate disease transmission by shutting down society,” he ...

www.americanthinker.com

 

[grbcane]

 

[dolcane]

And, they make great meatballs!

 

[rkrantz]

#Fakenews

It has to be fake because when I tried to share the story on FB it was flagged as "potentially false or incomplete information regarding Covid-19". And if Facebook's independent fact checkers determine it to be fake...

Then it must be so.

 

[grbcane]

#Fakenews

It has to be fake because when I tried to share the story on FB it was flagged as "potentially false or incomplete information regarding Covid-19". And if Facebook's independent fact checkers determine it to be fake...

Then it must be so.

According to Rauel2 they’re the arbiters of truth. It’s sad and hilarious that for anything that comes out against the official narrative, you’ll get ten bogus left wing fact articles debunking it.

 

[rkrantz]

According to Rauel2 they’re the arbiters of truth. It’s sad and hilarious that for anything that comes out against the official narrative, you’ll get ten bogus left wing fact articles debunking it.

Sounds very similar to another country's policies on news and information...

Can't quite think of it off the top of my head though...

Think it starts with a C or something...??

 

[grbcane]

And, they make great meatballs!

Not anymore, they’re actually made in China now. The meat is from wet markets, they have to be cooked differently, or sometimes not at all, and the cooking instructions are useless.

 

[801canesmxer]

And, they make great meatballs!

Great news if you love their meatballs. IKEA is offering a sweepstakes for their members with the prize of meatball scented candles.

 

[krvanness]

Lockdowns and mask don’t work, and Sweden didn’t destroy small businesses.

Too bad we couldn’t trade Fauci for Johan Carlson.

How Sweden Triumphed over COVID

Earlier this year, Sweden’s top health official, Johan Carlson, felt obligated to tell the world how wrong everyone else was. “Some believed that it was possible to eliminate disease transmission by shutting down society,” he ...

www.americanthinker.com

Yes. I put up a thread on Sweden in April of LAST year. Of course, Sweden was vilified by the MM for not following the "crowd" on the closures, masks, etc.. Can't believe how so many continue to buy into the fear mongering. We're creating a nation of hypochondriacs, but it's still a choice.

 

[rkrantz]

Yes. I put up a thread on Sweden in April of LAST year. Of course, Sweden was vilified by the MM for not following the "crowd" on the closures, masks, etc.. Can't believe how so many continue to buy into the fear mongering. We're creating a nation of hypochondriacs, but it's still a choice.

Still a choice... for now.

I am preparing for the vaccine mandates to come rolling down under Executive Order once Pfizer received full FDA approval.

I believe this could actually happen. And then we will no longer have a choice.

Well on our way to becoming China, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, etc.

Liberals couldn't be happier!

 

[CANE1983]

Still a choice... for now.

I am preparing for the vaccine mandates to come rolling down under Executive Order once Pfizer received full FDA approval.

I believe this could actually happen. And then we will no longer have a choice.

Well on our way to becoming China, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, etc.

Liberals couldn't be happier!

You do know we've been mandating vaccines for about the last 60 years right? You had to get vaccinated when you went to school and if your child is of school age so did they. I laugh when people think this is a novel concept. I'm not debating the merits of the vaccine, I'm simply saying it doesn't turn us into any of those countries, it actually just continues to make us America. It's crazy how 2 years ago we were all in collective agreeement that anti-vaxxers are nut jobs but now about 50% of the country stopped believing in science. Who could have seen such a radical shift.

 

[krvanness]

Still a choice... for now.

I am preparing for the vaccine mandates to come rolling down under Executive Order once Pfizer received full FDA approval.

I believe this could actually happen. And then we will no longer have a choice.

Well on our way to becoming China, Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, etc.

Liberals couldn't be happier!

I pray you're not right, but fear you might be spot on.

 

[rkrantz]

You do know we've been mandating vaccines for about the last 60 years right? You had to get vaccinated when you went to school and if your child is of school age so did they. I laugh when people think this is a novel concept. I'm not debating the merits of the vaccine, I'm simply saying it doesn't turn us into any of those countries, it actually just continues to make us America. It's crazy how 2 years ago we were all in collective agreeement that anti-vaxxers are nut jobs but now about 50% of the country stopped believing in science. Who could have seen such a radical shift.

You do know that there are thousands of people who still have not been vaccinated and do not get their kids vaccinated, right?

While public schools may require vaccines, there are ways around that including sending kids to private schools and/or claiming religious exemption.

Additionally, those vaccinations that are mandated had been developed over decades, and studied for decades as well. Potential side effects are well known.

With the way Liberals have set this up... the Covid vaccine will not be a choice at all, for anyone. It will be MANDATORY.

Anti-vaxxers were looked at as nut jobs for a long time. Until all the crazy shit they said would happen... actually started to happen. Kind of difficult to still consider them nut jobs when we are seeing their "nut job" points of view actually unfolding right before our eyes.

50% of the country stopped believing in science once it became very clear that the science was being bought and paid for by Big Pharma and the DNC. If I paid for a scientific study to prove that my farts are less smelly that your farts... chances are the results will prove my farts are less smelly because I'M THE ONE PAYING THE BILL.

Money can buy you just about anything these days. Including statistics... because regular people like me don't know how to do research on the study to determine the parameters of the study.

This is the most disheartening thing in my opinion that has happened here. My confidence in Medicine has been shaken to the absolute foundation. I used to think Doctors and scientists cared about my health and gave me information to help me make choices that were best suited for me and my family.

I no longer believe that is the case. I believe they are giving me incomplete data and skewed results in order to push their agenda and line their pockets. This is a once in eon chance for them... they arent going to waste it by allowing their conscience to overcome.

If ALL scientist and ALL doctors were to agree and be on the same page... that might be different. But right now, for every doctor or scientist I see on TV that says the vaccines are safe and effective I see another doctor or scientist on some sort of guerilla media outlet (forced to publish there since the MSM removes their content at will) contradicting those claims.

Why would that be happening if the absolute truth they want us to believe... was actually true?

 

[lyndiola]

Lockdowns and mask don’t work, and Sweden didn’t destroy small businesses.

Too bad we couldn’t trade Fauci for Johan Carlson.

How Sweden Triumphed over COVID

Earlier this year, Sweden’s top health official, Johan Carlson, felt obligated to tell the world how wrong everyone else was. “Some believed that it was possible to eliminate disease transmission by shutting down society,” he ...

www.americanthinker.com

I'd trade Fauci for 2 free lands on Boardwalk. Guy's a legend in his own mind

 

[CANE1983]

You do know that there are thousands of people who still have not been vaccinated and do not get their kids vaccinated, right?

While public schools may require vaccines, there are ways around that including sending kids to private schools and/or claiming religious exemption.

Additionally, those vaccinations that are mandated had been developed over decades, and studied for decades as well. Potential side effects are well known.

With the way Liberals have set this up... the Covid vaccine will not be a choice at all, for anyone. It will be MANDATORY.

Anti-vaxxers were looked at as nut jobs for a long time. Until all the crazy shit they said would happen... actually started to happen. Kind of difficult to still consider them nut jobs when we are seeing their "nut job" points of view actually unfolding right before our eyes.

50% of the country stopped believing in science once it became very clear that the science was being bought and paid for by Big Pharma and the DNC. If I paid for a scientific study to prove that my farts are less smelly that your farts... chances are the results will prove my farts are less smelly because I'M THE ONE PAYING THE BILL.

Money can buy you just about anything these days. Including statistics... because regular people like me don't know how to do research on the study to determine the parameters of the study.

This is the most disheartening thing in my opinion that has happened here. My confidence in Medicine has been shaken to the absolute foundation. I used to think Doctors and scientists cared about my health and gave me information to help me make choices that were best suited for me and my family.

I no longer believe that is the case. I believe they are giving me incomplete data and skewed results in order to push their agenda and line their pockets. This is a once in eon chance for them... they arent going to waste it by allowing their conscience to overcome.

If ALL scientist and ALL doctors were to agree and be on the same page... that might be different. But right now, for every doctor or scientist I see on TV that says the vaccines are safe and effective I see another doctor or scientist on some sort of guerilla media outlet (forced to publish there since the MSM removes their content at will) contradicting those claims.

Why would that be happening if the absolute truth they want us to believe... was actually true?

It's pretty much a consensus among the medical community that these vaccines work. Just look at the hospitals right now. 99% of all covid hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated. The problem is we have misinformation campaigns where people are people are trying to make these vaccines to be this evil money hungry thing where the facts just don't bear out. We have become a conspiracy theory society and it's sad, it really is. Adding to the irony is that right now all of this stuff is free to indiviudals but that will end shortly. Germany just ended free covid testing for those who are not vaccinated.

Do I think Vaccines should be mandated? No because I do believe in freedom of choice; that said I understand freedom from choice is not freedom from consequences. At a certain point very soon insurance companies are going to have to decide how to handle to unvaccinated and I'm sure its not going to be good for those people but at least you have your choice. When that time eventually comes are you going to give up your health insurance or pay 3x the premium instead of being vaccinated?

Of course the great irony in all of this is that the party that has fought to defend insurance companies right to deny people based on preexisting conditions (largely out of their control) will be the party that tries to fight those same companies for denying people because they chose not to get a vaccine that will likely lower insurance companies liability.

I believe there is a lot of corruption in this country - a lot from the left and a lot coming from the right. A lot coming from industries just like big pharma but I don't believe the average doctor is corrupt. I have probably 20-30 doctor clients and while yes, they all love money, they all care about their patients and public health at large. Not a single one - republican or democrat - has advised against the vaccine. They all took the vaccine at their first opportunity which is a pretty strong endorsement. I know 5 people who have died of covid (fortunately no one I was overly close to) and I know zero people who have even been seriously sick from any of the 3 authorized vaccines. I took the vaccine as soon as I could get it and will take the booster as soon as I can.

To me this isnt a left or right issue - do you want to live like this for the rest of your life or do you want to return to normalcy? We can debate right or wrong but as long as this virus is ravaging the country we are not going to get back to normal and that's the reality of the situation.

 

[grbcane]

 

[801canesmxer]

It's pretty much a consensus among the medical community that these vaccines work. Just look at the hospitals right now. 99% of all covid hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated. The problem is we have misinformation campaigns where people are people are trying to make these vaccines to be this evil money hungry thing where the facts just don't bear out. We have become a conspiracy theory society and it's sad, it really is. Adding to the irony is that right now all of this stuff is free to indiviudals but that will end shortly. Germany just ended free covid testing for those who are not vaccinated.

Do I think Vaccines should be mandated? No because I do believe in freedom of choice; that said I understand freedom from choice is not freedom from consequences. At a certain point very soon insurance companies are going to have to decide how to handle to unvaccinated and I'm sure its not going to be good for those people but at least you have your choice. When that time eventually comes are you going to give up your health insurance or pay 3x the premium instead of being vaccinated?

Of course the great irony in all of this is that the party that has fought to defend insurance companies right to deny people based on preexisting conditions (largely out of their control) will be the party that tries to fight those same companies for denying people because they chose not to get a vaccine that will likely lower insurance companies liability.

I believe there is a lot of corruption in this country - a lot from the left and a lot coming from the right. A lot coming from industries just like big pharma but I don't believe the average doctor is corrupt. I have probably 20-30 doctor clients and while yes, they all love money, they all care about their patients and public health at large. Not a single one - republican or democrat - has advised against the vaccine. They all took the vaccine at their first opportunity which is a pretty strong endorsement. I know 5 people who have died of covid (fortunately no one I was overly close to) and I know zero people who have even been seriously sick from any of the 3 authorized vaccines. I took the vaccine as soon as I could get it and will take the booster as soon as I can.

To me this isnt a left or right issue - do you want to live like this for the rest of your life or do you want to return to normalcy? We can debate right or wrong but as long as this virus is ravaging the country we are not going to get back to normal and that's the reality of the situation.

That's the problem, the 99% number that you cite goes back to the beginning of the virus. If you look at the numbers for hospitals right now, the numbers change. Take Colorado for instance. If you look at the breakthrough cases just since Jan 1 of this year, there is only a 3% instance of that happening. If you look at the number since July 1 that number jumps up to 20% of cases, 13% of hospitalizations and 8% of deaths. Same thing is happening in Utah where 20% of the cases in the last two weeks are breakthrough cases. The way the CDC is doing this is very misleading and makes the breakthrough cases seem artificially low. It is this type of deliberate and dangerous misrepresentation that makes people skeptical of the data they are given.

 

[krvanness]

This just might be one of the best pieces on this issue I've seen. Sensational article!

 

[rkrantz]

It's pretty much a consensus among the medical community that these vaccines work. Just look at the hospitals right now. 99% of all covid hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated. The problem is we have misinformation campaigns where people are people are trying to make these vaccines to be this evil money hungry thing where the facts just don't bear out. We have become a conspiracy theory society and it's sad, it really is. Adding to the irony is that right now all of this stuff is free to indiviudals but that will end shortly. Germany just ended free covid testing for those who are not vaccinated.

Do I think Vaccines should be mandated? No because I do believe in freedom of choice; that said I understand freedom from choice is not freedom from consequences. At a certain point very soon insurance companies are going to have to decide how to handle to unvaccinated and I'm sure its not going to be good for those people but at least you have your choice. When that time eventually comes are you going to give up your health insurance or pay 3x the premium instead of being vaccinated?

Of course the great irony in all of this is that the party that has fought to defend insurance companies right to deny people based on preexisting conditions (largely out of their control) will be the party that tries to fight those same companies for denying people because they chose not to get a vaccine that will likely lower insurance companies liability.

I believe there is a lot of corruption in this country - a lot from the left and a lot coming from the right. A lot coming from industries just like big pharma but I don't believe the average doctor is corrupt. I have probably 20-30 doctor clients and while yes, they all love money, they all care about their patients and public health at large. Not a single one - republican or democrat - has advised against the vaccine. They all took the vaccine at their first opportunity which is a pretty strong endorsement. I know 5 people who have died of covid (fortunately no one I was overly close to) and I know zero people who have even been seriously sick from any of the 3 authorized vaccines. I took the vaccine as soon as I could get it and will take the booster as soon as I can.

To me this isnt a left or right issue - do you want to live like this for the rest of your life or do you want to return to normalcy? We can debate right or wrong but as long as this virus is ravaging the country we are not going to get back to normal and that's the reality of the situation.

I read your opening line and had to reply before reading the rest... I have a feeling there will be multiple points I have to address here.

1. "pretty much a consensus" is NOT unanimous. If there are doctors and scientist opposed, WHY? That's what I want to know. WHY don't they agree? They stand to gain NOTHING by going against the grain, in fact they probably face harsh repercussions by doing so... so why are they doing so?

2. My doctor told me to get the vaccine... if I wanted to. He said I'm young, in great shape, have great levels in every measurable thing... so if I want to get it, go ahead. If I don't want to... don't. I'm not a high risk individual. He got the vaccine and tells his patients to do so... but he's 70 years old.

3. The details in paragraph 2 are what is most concerning to me. However, while insurance companies most likely WILL figure out ways to price gouge unvaccinated people... the lawsuits that will come from that will be staggering. Companies CANNOT discriminate people based on race, gender, age, sexual orientation, etc. I fully expect that issue to be brought to the Supreme Court and "vaccination status" to be added to the list of reasons a company cannot discriminate against you. Insurance companies will ALWAYS look for ways to screw people out of money, gouge pricing and deny claims. This will just be the NEXT thing they focus on.

4. Paragraph 4 is what this is all about though isnt it. "Do we want to get back to normal...?" Normal... what is "normal"? Who will determine what normal is? Are we in a "new normal" right now? Is normal going to be our children wearing masks while in school? Having to get vaccinated YEARLY to combat a virus that has a 99.4% global survival rate? That's now "normal"? Having to get vaccinated and show proof to fly on a plane, workout at a gym, eat at a restaurant, attend a football game... that will be normal? Here comes the scary part...

Will the new "normal" be carrying around a vaccine passport? Having an entire "2nd class" group of citizens that do not get vaccinated? Will that be "normal"? How will we determine who is and isnt vaccinated? Will they have to wear a special kind of identification mark, or patch so people know to steer clear of them on the street? That these people may be dangerous to your health if you get to close to them?

Does any of that sound familiar? Sounds an awful lot like Nazi Germany in 1934.

I know that sounds CRAZY right? That would NEVER happen here in America right? No way it would ever come to that here... We the People would not stand for such a thing.

Yet its kind of happening right before our eyes.

It hasnt happened all at once... it's taking some time... but little by little we are agreeing to surrendering our civil rights and freedom of choices in the name of "health and safety".

 

[CANE1983]

I read your opening line and had to reply before reading the rest... I have a feeling there will be multiple points I have to address here.

1. "pretty much a consensus" is NOT unanimous. If there are doctors and scientist opposed, WHY? That's what I want to know. WHY don't they agree? They stand to gain NOTHING by going against the grain, in fact they probably face harsh repercussions by doing so... so why are they doing so?

2. My doctor told me to get the vaccine... if I wanted to. He said I'm young, in great shape, have great levels in every measurable thing... so if I want to get it, go ahead. If I don't want to... don't. I'm not a high risk individual. He got the vaccine and tells his patients to do so... but he's 70 years old.

3. The details in paragraph 2 are what is most concerning to me. However, while insurance companies most likely WILL figure out ways to price gouge unvaccinated people... the lawsuits that will come from that will be staggering. Companies CANNOT discriminate people based on race, gender, age, sexual orientation, etc. I fully expect that issue to be brought to the Supreme Court and "vaccination status" to be added to the list of reasons a company cannot discriminate against you. Insurance companies will ALWAYS look for ways to screw people out of money, gouge pricing and deny claims. This will just be the NEXT thing they focus on.

4. Paragraph 4 is what this is all about though isnt it. "Do we want to get back to normal...?" Normal... what is "normal"? Who will determine what normal is? Are we in a "new normal" right now? Is normal going to be our children wearing masks while in school? Having to get vaccinated YEARLY to combat a virus that has a 99.4% global survival rate? That's now "normal"? Having to get vaccinated and show proof to fly on a plane, workout at a gym, eat at a restaurant, attend a football game... that will be normal? Here comes the scary part...

Will the new "normal" be carrying around a vaccine passport? Having an entire "2nd class" group of citizens that do not get vaccinated? Will that be "normal"? How will we determine who is and isnt vaccinated? Will they have to wear a special kind of identification mark, or patch so people know to steer clear of them on the street? That these people may be dangerous to your health if you get to close to them?

Does any of that sound familiar? Sounds an awful lot like Nazi Germany in 1934.

I know that sounds CRAZY right? That would NEVER happen here in America right? No way it would ever come to that here... We the People would not stand for such a thing.

Yet its kind of happening right before our eyes.

It hasnt happened all at once... it's taking some time... but little by little we are agreeing to surrendering our civil rights and freedom of choices in the name of "health and safety".

1) you will never get a consensus on anything.
2) your doctor still recommend it, right? Of course he’s not going to mandate you get it. After all, you’re a client and is not going to refuse your business just because you won’t get the vaccine.
3) why shouldn’t they charge more? More risks make it more likely they pay out. They’re in the business of making money not losing it. Should a driver with multiple DUIs not be charged more for auto insurance? Should houses in hurricane zones not cost more to insure than areas without natural disasters? Again freedom of choice is not freedom from consequences.
4) once we reach herd immunity it is very likely that no one ever asks vaccine status again. So the short term inconvenience is a small price to pay in my opinion for the overall well being of the country and the economy. If you haven’t noticed these supply chain disruptions are causing prices of just about everything to increase.

Im really not going to dignify your balls to the wall Nazi germany comparison because it’s completely assine. I would suggest going back and studying the Halocaust because the comparison couldn’t be anymore wrong. Quite frankly, it takes away from your credibility which even though I disagree with most of your arguments, I can atleast follow your logic if I respectfully disagree.

I’ll agree to disagree because we’re not going to see eye to eye but I would recommend you avoid the Halocaust comparison. You seem like a smart guy but it’s not a good look. My .02. One thing we both agree on is that the government should not mandate vaccines. We can leave it at that.

 

[816_Cane]

It's pretty much a consensus among the medical community that these vaccines work. Just look at the hospitals right now. 99% of all covid hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated. The problem is we have misinformation campaigns where people are people are trying to make these vaccines to be this evil money hungry thing where the facts just don't bear out. We have become a conspiracy theory society and it's sad, it really is. Adding to the irony is that right now all of this stuff is free to indiviudals but that will end shortly. Germany just ended free covid testing for those who are not vaccinated.

Do I think Vaccines should be mandated? No because I do believe in freedom of choice; that said I understand freedom from choice is not freedom from consequences. At a certain point very soon insurance companies are going to have to decide how to handle to unvaccinated and I'm sure its not going to be good for those people but at least you have your choice. When that time eventually comes are you going to give up your health insurance or pay 3x the premium instead of being vaccinated?

Of course the great irony in all of this is that the party that has fought to defend insurance companies right to deny people based on preexisting conditions (largely out of their control) will be the party that tries to fight those same companies for denying people because they chose not to get a vaccine that will likely lower insurance companies liability.

I believe there is a lot of corruption in this country - a lot from the left and a lot coming from the right. A lot coming from industries just like big pharma but I don't believe the average doctor is corrupt. I have probably 20-30 doctor clients and while yes, they all love money, they all care about their patients and public health at large. Not a single one - republican or democrat - has advised against the vaccine. They all took the vaccine at their first opportunity which is a pretty strong endorsement. I know 5 people who have died of covid (fortunately no one I was overly close to) and I know zero people who have even been seriously sick from any of the 3 authorized vaccines. I took the vaccine as soon as I could get it and will take the booster as soon as I can.

To me this isnt a left or right issue - do you want to live like this for the rest of your life or do you want to return to normalcy? We can debate right or wrong but as long as this virus is ravaging the country we are not going to get back to normal and that's the reality of the situation.

Serious question, How many of those doctors got rich pushing pills on people that didn’t need them and helped fuel the opioid crisis?

 

[SolarCane]

Their “success” is relative. Death rate per 100k people

Sweden 142.5
Denmark 43.9
Norway 15.03

Denmark and Norway both had mask mandates and lockdowns. Not to say Sweden’s has been a failure at all, but it’s not quite as black and white as you’re leading on.

 

[grbcane]

Their “success” is relative. Death rate per 100k people

Sweden 142.5
Denmark 43.9
Norway 15.03

Denmark and Norway both had mask mandates and lockdowns. Not to say Sweden’s has been a failure at all, but it’s not quite as black and white as you’re leading on.

You might want to read the article so you can see the benefits in their entirety of not locking down. It’s not even debatable, health wise, economically, suicides, and drug overdoses. It’s really common sense, unfortunately that and science went out the window once this all began.

One more thing mask have never been proven to stop Covid, there’s more evidence to the contrary.

 

[rkrantz]

1) you will never get a consensus on anything.
2) your doctor still recommend it, right? Of course he’s not going to mandate you get it. After all, you’re a client and is not going to refuse your business just because you won’t get the vaccine.
3) why shouldn’t they charge more? More risks make it more likely they pay out. They’re in the business of making money not losing it. Should a driver with multiple DUIs not be charged more for auto insurance? Should houses in hurricane zones not cost more to insure than areas without natural disasters? Again freedom of choice is not freedom from consequences.
4) once we reach herd immunity it is very likely that no one ever asks vaccine status again. So the short term inconvenience is a small price to pay in my opinion for the overall well being of the country and the economy. If you haven’t noticed these supply chain disruptions are causing prices of just about everything to increase.

Im really not going to dignify your balls to the wall Nazi germany comparison because it’s completely assine. I would suggest going back and studying the Halocaust because the comparison couldn’t be anymore wrong. Quite frankly, it takes away from your credibility which even though I disagree with most of your arguments, I can atleast follow your logic if I respectfully disagree.

I’ll agree to disagree because we’re not going to see eye to eye but I would recommend you avoid the Halocaust comparison. You seem like a smart guy but it’s not a good look. My .02. One thing we both agree on is that the government should not mandate vaccines. We can leave it at that.

I have to say... its really refreshing to have a conversation with someone with opposing views that doesnt resort to name calling and childish antics.

Thank you for that.

1. I can see your point. I just don't understand why some doctors are adamantly against the vaccines. If they are looking at the same science as everyone else... what are they seeing that gives them such pause? Why can't other doctors and scientists explain the issues to them in language they understand to get them to be on the same page?

2. Ok

3. Of course they can charge more... which is what Capitalism is all about. I understand your point and don't disagree. It doesnt make it right though. I live in South Florida and to find a homeowner's policy right now down here is next to impossible. Thankfully, I have a phenomenal agent that was able to manipulate things to get me a policy that isnt thru Citizens, which (for those of you who don't know) is a state run program that covers next to nothing and costs almost as much as if you self-insured. Since nobody can force a business to offer insurance policies down here, we are forced to take what we can get, which is usually much more expensive than a policy is say, Orlando. My gripe here is more of just a gripe... just another way the insurance industry will screw people over.

4. How can you be sure of this though? Once we reach herd immunity, whose to say that they won't push a new variant that will require a new vaccine? That is what I fear the most. If we must submit to getting this vaccine... do you really believe that the powers that be will be satisfied? What do people with money and power want more of? MONEY AND POWER! The Covid vaccine will net Big Pharma $500 Billion dollars this year alone. Think they'll cash their chips in after one year?? Especially after having such success getting people to funnel in for a vaccine out of fear? I believe that this will become the new "normal". Every single year there will be a new variant that has some sort of new characteristic that will scare people into lining up for another vaccine. And if the government mandates this vaccine (which I believe they will try to do) then what makes you think they won't mandate it every year?

5. I can understand why you think my comparison to Nazi Germany is asinine. I did not reference the Holocaust though. Only Nazi Germany. It took the Nazi's about 6-7 years to fully indoctrinate their agenda. They didnt show up on day 1 and start throwing people into concentration camps. The slowly changed the fabric of everyday German life. Changed the way children were taught in school. Changed the way adults thought of themselves and others who were unlike them. Changed the political landscape. Began changing laws. It takes time for a shift this major to take hold and become the "new normal".

But it's not unthinkable now, is it? We are seeing vaccine passport requirements right now is some cities here in America. Video of police walking around restaurants and public areas asking for proof of vaccination are out there. It's happening right now. Those without proof are required to LEAVE. Cannot stay and participate in everyday American life. If a mandate comes down and the Supreme Court cannot stop it... what will happen to those who refuse to get vaccinated? What will be required of them? I know it is asinine to think about... but given the drastic changes to our "normal" way of life in just 18 months, is it truly unthinkable to imagine that people may be required to identify themselves as UNVACCINATED in public so that vaccinated people can protect themselves from the evil anti-vaxxers?

We may not see eye to eye here and that's ok. I can see your point of view because I want to believe that something like that could NEVER happen here in America. I want to believe that people would be able to see what was happening and stand up to it. I want to believe that we are smarter than that here in America.

But the past 12 months have fractured my confidence in "We The People" a little bit. I am not as confident as I once was and I'm watching people line up to surrender their rights and civil liberties daily. I'm watching 200,000 people a month illegally cross our border and flood into our country, bringing disease and poverty in with them. I'm watching those people be shipped and bussed to areas that are predominantly Republican. And I'm watching NOBODY do anything about it.

You can see why I have some concerns... no?

I'm glad we agree that vaccines should not be mandated. I hope we do not have to have a discussion in the future about what we do now that the mandates have been passed.

 

[CANE1983]

I have to say... its really refreshing to have a conversation with someone with opposing views that doesnt resort to name calling and childish antics.

Thank you for that.

1. I can see your point. I just don't understand why some doctors are adamantly against the vaccines. If they are looking at the same science as everyone else... what are they seeing that gives them such pause? Why can't other doctors and scientists explain the issues to them in language they understand to get them to be on the same page?

2. Ok

3. Of course they can charge more... which is what Capitalism is all about. I understand your point and don't disagree. It doesnt make it right though. I live in South Florida and to find a homeowner's policy right now down here is next to impossible. Thankfully, I have a phenomenal agent that was able to manipulate things to get me a policy that isnt thru Citizens, which (for those of you who don't know) is a state run program that covers next to nothing and costs almost as much as if you self-insured. Since nobody can force a business to offer insurance policies down here, we are forced to take what we can get, which is usually much more expensive than a policy is say, Orlando. My gripe here is more of just a gripe... just another way the insurance industry will screw people over.

4. How can you be sure of this though? Once we reach herd immunity, whose to say that they won't push a new variant that will require a new vaccine? That is what I fear the most. If we must submit to getting this vaccine... do you really believe that the powers that be will be satisfied? What do people with money and power want more of? MONEY AND POWER! The Covid vaccine will net Big Pharma $500 Billion dollars this year alone. Think they'll cash their chips in after one year?? Especially after having such success getting people to funnel in for a vaccine out of fear? I believe that this will become the new "normal". Every single year there will be a new variant that has some sort of new characteristic that will scare people into lining up for another vaccine. And if the government mandates this vaccine (which I believe they will try to do) then what makes you think they won't mandate it every year?

5. I can understand why you think my comparison to Nazi Germany is asinine. I did not reference the Holocaust though. Only Nazi Germany. It took the Nazi's about 6-7 years to fully indoctrinate their agenda. They didnt show up on day 1 and start throwing people into concentration camps. The slowly changed the fabric of everyday German life. Changed the way children were taught in school. Changed the way adults thought of themselves and others who were unlike them. Changed the political landscape. Began changing laws. It takes time for a shift this major to take hold and become the "new normal".

But it's not unthinkable now, is it? We are seeing vaccine passport requirements right now is some cities here in America. Video of police walking around restaurants and public areas asking for proof of vaccination are out there. It's happening right now. Those without proof are required to LEAVE. Cannot stay and participate in everyday American life. If a mandate comes down and the Supreme Court cannot stop it... what will happen to those who refuse to get vaccinated? What will be required of them? I know it is asinine to think about... but given the drastic changes to our "normal" way of life in just 18 months, is it truly unthinkable to imagine that people may be required to identify themselves as UNVACCINATED in public so that vaccinated people can protect themselves from the evil anti-vaxxers?

We may not see eye to eye here and that's ok. I can see your point of view because I want to believe that something like that could NEVER happen here in America. I want to believe that people would be able to see what was happening and stand up to it. I want to believe that we are smarter than that here in America.

But the past 12 months have fractured my confidence in "We The People" a little bit. I am not as confident as I once was and I'm watching people line up to surrender their rights and civil liberties daily. I'm watching 200,000 people a month illegally cross our border and flood into our country, bringing disease and poverty in with them. I'm watching those people be shipped and bussed to areas that are predominantly Republican. And I'm watching NOBODY do anything about it.

You can see why I have some concerns... no?

I'm glad we agree that vaccines should not be mandated. I hope we do not have to have a discussion in the future about what we do now that the mandates have been passed.

Absolutely can understand why anyone has concerns. Even though I personally believe its a no brainier, I don't have any less respect for someone who doesn't get it. At the end of the day, no one has all the answers and any one that pretends to loses all credibility in my eyes, whether it a pro or anti-vax stance. I will try my best to encourage anyone I know personally to take it but that is just because I truly believe it helps and I want the best for the people in my life. I don't get offended when people say they don't want it.

Like I said in one of my previous posts - I just want life to get back to a sense of normality. You're right that the old normal may be gone and this new normal may not be something we all like but I'm an optimistic person, a pumper if you will. I hate that 4 weeks out from football we can't even say with 100% that all our games are going to be played or that fans will be allowed all season. I hate that I can't travel abroad. I hate that my house that is being built is taking for god damn ever because every time one guy on any of the subs crews gets covid they shut down for 2 weeks. I hate that everything with this thing is a matter of politics - both sides are guilty as hell - which of course is pretty much everything now days.

I'm not going to address your individual points just because I really don't want to keep going back and forth but rest assured I did read them all and I respect your viewpoints both the ones I agree and disagree with. Honestly, I come into the lounge when things are really slow at work and I always regret posting because I really do hate getting into these political discussions online - they are so much better in person. I do also appreciate that we're able to have a respectful back and forth on this. Thank you for keeping it civil and about the issues. If only more people could communicate like this our country would be in a much better spot.

Enjoy your day brother and GO CANES!

 

[rkrantz]

Absolutely can understand why anyone has concerns. Even though I personally believe its a no brainier, I don't have any less respect for someone who doesn't get it. At the end of the day, no one has all the answers and any one that pretends to loses all credibility in my eyes, whether it a pro or anti-vax stance. I will try my best to encourage anyone I know personally to take it but that is just because I truly believe it helps and I want the best for the people in my life. I don't get offended when people say they don't want it.

Like I said in one of my previous posts - I just want life to get back to a sense of normality. You're right that the old normal may be gone and this new normal may not be something we all like but I'm an optimistic person, a pumper if you will. I hate that 4 weeks out from football we can't even say with 100% that all our games are going to be played or that fans will be allowed all season. I hate that I can't travel abroad. I hate that my house that is being built is taking for god damn ever because every time one guy on any of the subs crews gets covid they shut down for 2 weeks. I hate that everything with this thing is a matter of politics - both sides are guilty as hell - which of course is pretty much everything now days.

I'm not going to address your individual points just because I really don't want to keep going back and forth but rest assured I did read them all and I respect your viewpoints both the ones I agree and disagree with. Honestly, I come into the lounge when things are really slow at work and I always regret posting because I really do hate getting into these political discussions online - they are so much better in person. I do also appreciate that we're able to have a respectful back and forth on this. Thank you for keeping it civil and about the issues. If only more people could communicate like this our country would be in a much better spot.

Enjoy your day brother and GO CANES!

Good talk brother.

I'm glad we could discuss this. I understand your POV and do not disagree that people should be vaccinated if they want to be and are healthy enough to be. My wife and I may be scheduling our appointment to get vaccinated in the near future in order to protect ourselves and our families.

I just pray that this isnt the first step toward a "new normal" that turns out to be something we do not like.

Hope your house gets built sooner rather than later. Combine the delays due to Covid with the ever increasing prices of materials and I don't envy you right now. My wife and I are having a hard time getting pricing for renovations at our home too... a new kitchen 18 months ago would have cost us $25k and we didnt move on it because Covid shutdowns were coming down the pipe and we thought it would have been better to hold our cash.

Today it will cost us $40k. 🤦‍♂️

One way or another... Covid has f#cked us all. I hope it doesnt CONITUNE to f#ck us for years to come.

Thanks again for the discussion. Believe it or not... I do feel a little better about things.

 

[grbcane]

 

[honeyiv]

Lockdowns and mask don’t work, and Sweden didn’t destroy small businesses.

Too bad we couldn’t trade Fauci for Johan Carlson.

How Sweden Triumphed over COVID

Earlier this year, Sweden’s top health official, Johan Carlson, felt obligated to tell the world how wrong everyone else was. “Some believed that it was possible to eliminate disease transmission by shutting down society,” he ...

www.americanthinker.com

Because there are no teachers unions in Sweden, hardly any politics, and if you can't speak English or act appropriately, you are unacceptable. Would be kinda cool if we did the same thing here. The longer we let shit people get away with these antics, the longer road back it will be.

 

[krvanness]

Because there are no teachers unions in Sweden, hardly any politics, and if you can't speak English or act appropriately, you are unacceptable. Would be kinda cool if we did the same thing here. The longer we let shit people get away with these antics, the longer road back it will be.

I'm not even sure there's a road...

 

[honeyiv]

I'm not even sure there's a road...

Don't ever give up on this country. There are a lot of shit people doing their thing right now. But I think it is temporary. Normal human beings will end up ruling the day.

 

[krvanness]

Don't ever give up on this country. There are a lot of shit people doing their thing right now. But I think it is temporary. Normal human beings will end up ruling the day.

I love the optimism honeyiv, but I'm starting to worry we might just fall over the edge...

 

[grbcane]

Why Does No One Ever Talk About Sweden Anymore?

Very weird, isn't it?

ianmsc.substack.com

 

[krvanness]

I knew they were right when it was first divulged they were bucking the trend, in the Spring of last year.

Love the last part if the article grb...

So to answer the question, why does no one talk about Sweden anymore? It’s because it’s no longer useful for the media to promote their agenda.

When Sweden’s numbers looked disproportionately bad, it was a valuable tool in the media playbook of masks, lockdowns and endless, condescending fear-mongering. “Look at what happens if you don’t do what we tell you, peasants.”

Now that Sweden has dropped to 40th in COVID mortality rate, and continued to report extremely low recent rates of both cases and deaths, they’re suddenly uninterested.

It’s a microcosm of the disastrous, indefinite mess we’re living through — experts incorrectly, hysterically screeched that masks and business closures and capacity limits were absolutely necessary to keep COVID “under control,” and the media immediately assumed their role as promoters of incompetent groupthink and professional scolds of any who disagreed.

Sweden went against the herd, thus they must be scorned and labeled by the arbiters of acceptable opinion.

There will never be a reckoning or acceptance of fault on the part of the media, because they are incapable of correcting their preconceptions and admitting that The Science™ was wrong. They placed their unquestioning faith in experts having a level of competence that they simply do not possess. And if there were any sanity or justice in the world, they would be held to account for their inaccuracy and the influence it’s had on COVID policy.

But of course, as we all know, sanity and the Age of Reason and Enlightenment ended with “15 Days to Slow the Spread,” 549 days ago.

 

[grbcane]

I knew they were right when it was first divulged they were bucking the trend, in the Spring of last year.

Love the last part if the article grb...

So to answer the question, why does no one talk about Sweden anymore? It’s because it’s no longer useful for the media to promote their agenda.

When Sweden’s numbers looked disproportionately bad, it was a valuable tool in the media playbook of masks, lockdowns and endless, condescending fear-mongering. “Look at what happens if you don’t do what we tell you, peasants.”

Now that Sweden has dropped to 40th in COVID mortality rate, and continued to report extremely low recent rates of both cases and deaths, they’re suddenly uninterested.

It’s a microcosm of the disastrous, indefinite mess we’re living through — experts incorrectly, hysterically screeched that masks and business closures and capacity limits were absolutely necessary to keep COVID “under control,” and the media immediately assumed their role as promoters of incompetent groupthink and professional scolds of any who disagreed.

Sweden went against the herd, thus they must be scorned and labeled by the arbiters of acceptable opinion.

There will never be a reckoning or acceptance of fault on the part of the media, because they are incapable of correcting their preconceptions and admitting that The Science™ was wrong. They placed their unquestioning faith in experts having a level of competence that they simply do not possess. And if there were any sanity or justice in the world, they would be held to account for their inaccuracy and the influence it’s had on COVID policy.

But of course, as we all know, sanity and the Age of Reason and Enlightenment ended with “15 Days to Slow the Spread,” 549 days ago.

Excellent post, you posted a lot of things people should be asking themselves. Once you start asking these questions you start to realize how heinous the actions of the press and political class have been. They both are responsible for the death and destruction of countless lives, far more destructive than covid could ever have been.

 

[sabrose]

The percentage of those hospitalized with Covid may change as vaccines lose their effectiveness over time. As of now the majority of those dying from Covid are unvaccinated. In Ocala we have lost an 18 yo, a 37 yo, numerous persons in their 40s and 50s. All unvaccinated.
Its likely that Moderna is a better vaccine as it produces notably higher antibody levels than Pfizer Pfizer has much more difficult storage issues required so its likely many are getting denatured product due to improper storage...But Moderna is a little more likely to cause myocarditis particularly in young men. Its likely the transient myocarditis is due to spike protein which gradually is attacked and disappears.
What I find most suspicious is the CDC is suppressing info as to the type of Covid one has . The patients are not allowed that info. The question is why? Is the govt suppressing the fact that the delta variant is a myth or overestimated so as not to cast doubt on vaccinations?
I am worried about an administration that runs Gulags for Jan 6 protestors and lets BLM and Anti Fa thugs roam the streets. If the Justice department is corrupt can the other institutions be equally corrupt?

 

[grbcane]

The percentage of those hospitalized with Covid may change as vaccines lose their effectiveness over time. As of now the majority of those dying from Covid are unvaccinated. In Ocala we have lost an 18 yo, a 37 yo, numerous persons in their 40s and 50s. All unvaccinated.
Its likely that Moderna is a better vaccine as it produces notably higher antibody levels than Pfizer Pfizer has much more difficult storage issues required so its likely many are getting denatured product due to improper storage...But Moderna is a little more likely to cause myocarditis particularly in young men. Its likely the transient myocarditis is due to spike protein which gradually is attacked and disappears.
What I find most suspicious is the CDC is suppressing info as to the type of Covid one has . The patients are not allowed that info. The question is why? Is the govt suppressing the fact that the delta variant is a myth or overestimated so as not to cast doubt on vaccinations?
I am worried about an administration that runs Gulags for Jan 6 protestors and lets BLM and Anti Fa thugs roam the streets. If the Justice department is corrupt can the other institutions be equally corrupt?

How would you compare the effectiveness of the Johnson and Johnson vaccine, I hear very little information on it. This is the vaccine I received.

 

[krvanness]

The percentage of those hospitalized with Covid may change as vaccines lose their effectiveness over time. As of now the majority of those dying from Covid are unvaccinated. In Ocala we have lost an 18 yo, a 37 yo, numerous persons in their 40s and 50s. All unvaccinated.
Its likely that Moderna is a better vaccine as it produces notably higher antibody levels than Pfizer Pfizer has much more difficult storage issues required so its likely many are getting denatured product due to improper storage...But Moderna is a little more likely to cause myocarditis particularly in young men. Its likely the transient myocarditis is due to spike protein which gradually is attacked and disappears.
What I find most suspicious is the CDC is suppressing info as to the type of Covid one has . The patients are not allowed that info. The question is why? Is the govt suppressing the fact that the delta variant is a myth or overestimated so as not to cast doubt on vaccinations?
I am worried about an administration that runs Gulags for Jan 6 protestors and lets BLM and Anti Fa thugs roam the streets. If the Justice department is corrupt can the other institutions be equally corrupt?

What are your thoughts on the use of ivermectin as a therapeutic? @doerunn posted an article on the stunning success of its use in the Utter Pradesh state of India, comparing it to the state of Kerala, India. The UP bought in fully to the use of ivermectin as a prophylactic whereas Kerala walked away from it. The article compares the situation today:

On September 10, 2021, Uttar Pradesh, a population of 240 million, saw nine new cases, or about one for every 24 million people. One death. Delhi saw only 36 new cases and ZERO deaths. Bihar, a population of 127 million, saw 12 new cases, or one per 10 million population. ZERO deaths.

In stark contrast, we see Kerala, a population of 34 million people, with 25,010 new cases on September 10, or nearly one per thousand. Deaths are 177 out of the entire country's total of 308. Thus, more than half of all of India's September 10 COVID deaths occurred in Kerala.

The Ivermectin Deworming Hoax - Part II: Eric Clapton’s Human Rights Warning

How an Error Becomes a Mistake

www.thedesertreview.com

 

[grbcane]

 

[grbcane]