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Trump defies his own Generals

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ucfgoon51

SuperCane
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Dec 30, 2011
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https://www.newyorker.com/news/news...-isis-and-syria/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Man it must be awful for actual American patriots and Generals to have to listen to this DRAFT DODGING, Law enforcement bashing coward. This man is a traitor. What a pathetic little d**k excuse for a man. If you actually believe a reality tv show host who couldn't even win the popular vote is "smarter than the generals" im not even mad. Please please continue to support trump. I have never seen people so willing to associate themselves with trash and I enjoy it. Lol
 
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It's purely amazing what people will support for selfish interest. What they will forgive.
 
Lol.....yep, I never heard of another President disagreeing with his generals. Oh wait....

You guys crack me up.

ucfgoon51 said:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news...-isis-and-syria/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Man it must be awful for actual American patriots and Generals to have to listen to this DRAFT DODGING, Law enforcement bashing coward. This man is a traitor. What a pathetic little d**k excuse for a man. If you actually believe a reality tv show host who couldn't even win the popular vote is "smarter than the generals" im not even mad. Please please continue to support trump. I have never seen people so willing to associate themselves with trash and I enjoy it. Lol
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Cane919 said:
Lol.....yep, I never heard of another President disagreeing with his generals. Oh wait....

You guys crack me up.
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Unfortunately in Trump's case, he has no experience and should be listening to his generals (who are after all the experts) on the best way to proceed. A good leader will take the broader context of the situation into account and listen to his subject matter experts instead of blindly acting based on whatever he thinks will give him a temporary bump in the polls. He is neither tactical nor strategic, but rather transactional. In some instances that may be beneficial (ie meeting with Kim Jong Un) but in many others it could be dangerously shortsighted to where it gives our adversaries the opening they are looking for.
 
Raoul, the irony of your post can’t go unnoticed. Obama, with no experience, not only questioned his Generals but fired them when 5hey disagreed with him. More importantly though, President Trumps disagreement with the Generals seems to be on the length of our stay which is exactly what Barack had a problem with. So is your concern his position or the person recommending it?

Raoul2 said:
Unfortunately in Trump's case, he has no experience and should be listening to his generals (who are after all the experts) on the best way to proceed. A good leader will take the broader context of the situation into account and listen to his subject matter experts instead of blindly acting based on whatever he thinks will give him a temporary bump in the polls. He is neither tactical nor strategic, but rather transactional. In some instances that may be beneficial (ie meeting with Kim Jong Un) but in many others it could be dangerously shortsighted to where it gives our adversaries the opening they are looking for.
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Cane919 said:
Raoul, the irony of your post can’t go unnoticed. Obama, with no experience, not only questioned his Generals but fired them when 5hey disagreed with him. More importantly though, President Trumps with the Generals seems to be on the length of our stay which is exactly what Barack had a problem with. So is your concern his position or the person recommending it?
Click to expand...

Obama had experience as a US Senator coming into the Presidency, which other than being a Governor of a state, is probably the best job one can have. He gained a lot of experience on policy while serving on the Foreign Relations, Homeland Security & Government Affairs, and Veterans Affairs committees. He was also very well read and well spoken on foreign policy issues. In my view some of his ideas were good, some were bad.

The concern with Trump is that he thinks his ideas are more credible than those of the experienced subject matter experts who are advising him. That could become extremely dangerous if he ignores valid advice and attempts to "wing it" in order to score cheap points with his base.

I will give Trump some big respect for his tweet about calling out Putin for the first time ever this morning, regarding the chemical attack in Syria this weekend. If he grows another testicle with regards to Putin and Russia then he will gain some support from me and others who been waiting for him step up to the plate against our greatest geo-political adversary.
 
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Obama had very little experience despite the couple years he was in the senate as he was campaigning for the majority of it. That said President Trumps position is almost identical to Barack’s and yet the feigned outrage from the left over his potential direction that could go against the recommendations of his generals.

Raoul2 said:
Obama had experience as a US Senator coming into the Presidency, which other than being a Governor of a state, is probably the best job one can have. He gained a lot of experience on policy while serving on the Foreign Relations, Homeland Security & Government Affairs, and Veterans Affairs committees. He was also very well read and well spoken on foreign policy issues. In my view some of his ideas were good, some were bad.

The concern with Trump is that he thinks his ideas are more credible than those of the experienced subject matter experts who are advising him. That could become extremely dangerous if he ignores valid advice and attempts to "wing it" in order to score cheap points with his base.

I will give Trump some big respect for his tweet about calling out Putin for the first time ever this morning, regarding the chemical attack in Syria this weekend. If he grows another testicle with regards to Putin and Russia then he will gain some support from me and others who been waiting for him step up to the plate against our greatest geo-political adversary.
Click to expand...
 
Does anybody think this is an orchestrated event for bargaining power. Saudi’s among others don’t want us to leave, Trump wants them to put some skin in the game. They know Iran is aggressively making play to be Arab power broker. We can’t fix the Middle East let see if their own will step up.
 
Yes and no. I believe our President understands the easiest way to negotiate is from a position of power and so he lets everyone know the consequences of not negotiating fairly. This is no different. I also think, he really does want to pull out as he believes our mission in the Middle East should be done. Considering the state of Al Queda and ISIS and our 17 year stay, he’s probably right, especially considering what may lay ahead.

ZEKEMUG said:
Does anybody think this is an orchestrated event for bargaining power. Saudi’s among others don’t want us to leave, Trump wants them to put some skin in the game. They know Iran is aggressively making play to be Arab power broker. We can’t fix the Middle East let see if their own will step up.
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Cane919 said:
Yes and no. I believe our President understands the easiest way to negotiate is from a position of power and so he lets everyone know the consequences of not negotiating fairly. This is no different. I also think, he really does want to pull out as he believes our mission in the Middle East should be done. Considering the state of Al Queda and ISIS and our 17 year stay, he’s probably right, especially considering what may lay ahead.
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Was just putting out as a possibility. I was in Beirut and Damascus and Istanbul 1971 at the time Syria was the worry for taking over. The one thing I learned was the American press reports like these regions are like us. You can’t apply our ideals to these regions they don’t want or understand human rights. Problems go back centuries and are never forgotten. Add the religious factors and you get the mess the Middle East is.
 
Cane919 said:
Yes and no. I believe our President understands the easiest way to negotiate is from a position of power and so he lets everyone know the consequences of not negotiating fairly. This is no different. I also think, he really does want to pull out as he believes our mission in the Middle East should be done. Considering the state of Al Queda and ISIS and our 17 year stay, he’s probably right, especially considering what may lay ahead.
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If that were the case then he wouldn't be pulling out of Syria and ceding the country to Assad, Putin, and Iran.
 
I agree Zeke. We can not fix the Middle East.

ZEKEMUG said:
Was just putting out as a possibility. I was in Beirut and Damascus and Istanbul 1971 at the time Syria was the worry for taking over. The one thing I learned was the American press reports like these regions are like us. You can’t apply our ideals to these regions they don’t want or understand human rights. Problems go back centuries and are never forgotten. Add the religious factors and you get the mess the Middle East is.
Click to expand...
 
Cane919 said:
Raoul, the irony of your post can’t go unnoticed. Obama, with no experience, not only questioned his Generals but fired them when 5hey disagreed with him. More importantly though, President Trumps with the Generals seems to be on the length of our stay which is exactly what Barack had a problem with. So is your concern his position or the person recommending it?
Click to expand...

Got to agree with you. There are very good reasons why we don't have generals making foreign policy decisions. I see no issue with trump making his own decision. I don't think it's the correct decision but it is his to make and we'll see how it turns out.
 
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Cane919 said:
Are you talking about his statements about his desire to be out in 6 months?
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His plan is to pull out, despite the advice he is getting from his military commanders. Whether that happens now or in six months, he would still be ceding Syria to Putin and Assad. This also helps Iran expand their sphere of influence and puts their operatives right on Israel's doorstep.
 
I tend to agree that pulling out isn’t in our best interest but he’s the one that must decide. Let’s hope the best decision is made.

lou97 said:
Got to agree with you. There are very good reasons why we don't have generals making foreign policy decisions. I see no issue with trump making his own decision. I don't think it's the correct decision but it is his to make and we'll see how it turns out.
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First, expressing a desire does not necessarily mean you’ll be able to do it. As for sphere of influence, us staying/leaving doesn’t change anything. Syria has always been opposed to Israel and will continue to be regardless.

Raoul2 said:
His plan is to pull out, despite the advice he is getting from his military commanders. Whether that happens now or in six months, he would still be ceding Syria to Putin and Assad. This also helps Iran expand their sphere of influence and puts their operatives right on Israel's doorstep.
Click to expand...
 
Cane919 said:
First, expressing a desire does not necessarily mean you’ll be able to do it. As for sphere of influence, us staying/leaving doesn’t change anything. Syria has always been opposed to Israel and will continue to be regardless.
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We're not talking about Syria here - we're talking about the spread of Iranian influence on Israel's border. Iran already controls Hezbollah in Lebanon and would do the same if they could through pro-Assad, Iran friendly proxies in Syria.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liberman-trump-didnt-consult-with-israel-on-syria-withdrawal/
 
I’m not exactly sure what influence you think we have staying or not. The problems have persisted throughout history, Israel has been surrounded by enemies since they claimed borders, and nothing we do is changing that.

Raoul2 said:
We're not talking about Syria here - we're talking about the spread of Iranian influence on Israel's border. Iran already controls Hezbollah in Lebanon and would do the same if they could through pro-Assad, Iran friendly proxies in Syria.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liberman-trump-didnt-consult-with-israel-on-syria-withdrawal/
Click to expand...
 
Cane919 said:
I’m not exactly sure what influence you think we have staying or not. The problems have persisted throughout history, Israel has been surrounded by enemies since they claimed borders, and nothing we do is changing that.
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Think of it on old Cold War terms. We didn't want the Russians expanding into parts of Asia or western Europe. Likewise today, we don't want the Russians and their proxies (in this case Syria and Iran) expanding at all, much less into areas where we have strategic interests like Israel, Saudi Arabia, oil transit lanes, as well as the blood and treasure we have lost over the past 15 years in Iraq. Withdrawing from the middle east would simply allow our adversaries to take our place as the dominant actor on the world's stage.
 
Are you suggesting us pulling out of Syria will lead to Russia moving into Saudi Arabia?

Raoul2 said:
Think of it on old Cold War terms. We didn't want the Russians expanding into parts of Asia or western Europe. Likewise today, we don't want the Russians and their proxies (in this case Syria and Iran) expanding at all, much less into areas where we have strategic interests like Israel, Saudi Arabia, oil transit lanes, as well as the blood and treasure we have lost over the past 15 years in Iraq. Withdrawing from the middle east would simply allow our adversaries to take our place as the dominant actor on the world's stage.
Click to expand...
 
Cane919 said:
Are you suggesting us pulling out of Syria will lead to Russia moving into Saudi Arabia?
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Nope. However the Saudis will not tolerate the spread of Iranian influence in the region by way of Iran setting up shop in Syria (in addition to them funding the Houthis in Yemen). That will start an arms race that will put Iran v Saudi and cause far more instability in a region that needs stability in order to keep oil and natural gas transports moving smoothly. We should therefore stay there and consolidate our gains, work with various countries (Saudi, Qatar, Bahrain, and Kuwait) to keep a strong military presence there, and promote secular reforms in as many countries as possible in order to promote more stable governance down the road. That's what Trump should be focusing on, not bringing troops home only to have to send them back in an emergency a year or two from now.
 
Ok, again irony. I, a conservative am saying there comes a time when your mission ends and you should go, while you, the Liberal, are suggesting we must remain indefinitely to stabilize the reaction.

Raoul2 said:
Nope. However the Saudis will not tolerate the spread of Iranian influence in the region by way of Iran setting up shop in Syria (in addition to them funding the Houthis in Yemen). That will start an arms race that will put Iran v Saudi and cause far more instability in a region that needs stability in order to keep oil and natural gas transports moving smoothly. We should therefore stay there and consolidate our gains, work with various countries (Saudi, Qatar, Bahrain, and Kuwait) to keep a strong military presence there, and promote secular reforms in as many countries as possible in order to promote more stable governance down the road. That's what Trump should be focusing on, not bringing troops home only to have to send them back in an emergency a year or two from now.
Click to expand...
 
Cane919 said:
Ok, again irony. I, a conservative am saying there comes a time when your mission ends and you should go, while you, the Liberal, are suggesting we must remain indefinitely to stabilize the reaction.
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There's no irony at all. We never leave because it would degrade our global power. We are still in Germany, Japan, Korea, and all over the middle east.
 
Good news, we’ll never leave the Middle East. We will though leave Syria as that mission is coming to an end.

Raoul2 said:
There's no irony at all. We never leave because it would degrade our global power. We are still in Germany, Japan, Korea, and all over the middle east.
Click to expand...
 
Raoul2 said:
There's no irony at all. We never leave because it would degrade our global power. We are still in Germany, Japan, Korea, and all over the middle east.
Click to expand...

Forget Vietnam Nam ? The rest you mention are 65+ years ago. Trump has stated these people have to start taking care of own defense. Also within the last couple years our presence in various countries in Middle East was a recruiting tool for ISIS. Get the Infidels out.
 
Raoul2 said:
Obama had experience as a US Senator coming into the Presidency, which other than being a Governor of a state, is probably the best job one can have. He gained a lot of experience on policy while serving on the Foreign Relations, Homeland Security & Government Affairs, and Veterans Affairs committees. He was also very well read and well spoken on foreign policy issues. In my view some of his ideas were good, some were bad.

The concern with Trump is that he thinks his ideas are more credible than those of the experienced subject matter experts who are advising him. That could become extremely dangerous if he ignores valid advice and attempts to "wing it" in order to score cheap points with his base.

I will give Trump some big respect for his tweet about calling out Putin for the first time ever this morning, regarding the chemical attack in Syria this weekend. If he grows another testicle with regards to Putin and Russia then he will gain some support from me and others who been waiting for him step up to the plate against our greatest geo-political adversary.
Click to expand...

McEnroe...You can’t be serious.
 
ZEKEMUG said:
Forget Vietnam Nam ? The rest you mention are 65+ years ago. Trump has stated these people have to start taking care of own defense. Also within the last couple years our presence in various countries in Middle East was a recruiting tool for ISIS. Get the Infidels out.
Click to expand...

Which is of course all nonsense based on his naive interpretation of foreign relations.

Our presence in the middle east was largely related to the first Gulf War, not AQ or ISIS, although the latter were allowed to grow gradually sprout out of our failure to not finish the job in Gulf War one. The 2003 invasion of Iraq was the inciting incidenet that allowed AQ to take root in Iraq, which later turned into ISIS. At least Trump was right about that one.
 
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Cane919 said:
Raoul, the irony of your post can’t go unnoticed. Obama, with no experience, not only questioned his Generals but fired them when 5hey disagreed with him. More importantly though, President Trumps disagreement with the Generals seems to be on the length of our stay which is exactly what Barack had a problem with. So is your concern his position or the person recommending it?
Click to expand...
Great question.
 
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Raoul2 said:
Which is of course all nonsense based on his naive interpretation of foreign relations.

Our presence in the middle east was largely related to the first Gulf War, not AQ or ISIS, although the latter were allowed to grow gradually sprout out of our failure to not finish the job in Gulf War one. The 2003 invasion of Iraq was the inciting incidenet that allowed AQ to take root in Iraq, which later turned into ISIS. At least Trump was right about that one.
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Raoul, do yourself a favor and look up our involvement in the Middle East. Andrew Jackson had treaty’s in 1800’s. After the breakup of the Ottoman Empire the Americans were respected because we didn’t colonize like British and French. After WW2 we were in for the oil. 1948 Israel becomes a nation.
 
ZEKEMUG said:
Raoul, do yourself a favor and look up our involvement in the Middle East. Andrew Jackson had treaty’s in 1800’s. After the breakup of the Ottoman Empire the Americans were respected because we didn’t colonize like British and French. After WW2 we were in for the oil. 1948 Israel becomes a nation.
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Thanks, I’ve worked there for many years. We aren’t colonizing anything now, but are still getting hit by the bad guys courtesy of decades of meddling in various governments to (among other things) stop the spread of Soviet influence in the region. That was different from what we are doing now which is retaining bilateral Sofa deals with Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, and Iraq. If we pull out of these areas then we are simply allowing the next country on the geopolitical pecking order (in this case Russia) to move in at our expense.
 
Raoul, like I said I was there ‘71 Lebanon was still Christian run with Muslim majority. The one constant is nothing is as simple as it sounds in the Middle East. Too many players with too many agendas.
 
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