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Trump or any REP will never get a fair and honest moderator.

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Conservatives have zero issue getting fair debates. Trump is not a consultative. He's a Trumper. He's anti intellectual. Does not care about depth of topic. Thinks debating is hurling one liners, engaging in ad hominem and performing. Bristles at fact checking. Can't be nuanced. Makes proclamations and abhors when they are challenged.

This isn't Nixon Kennedy. This isn't Baldwin Buckley. It's not even Obama Romney or Bush Gore.

This is a performer who will echo things he's said in rallies, eschew factual information, refuse to dig into the minutia of an issue and thinks scoring zingers is akin to winning as opposed to deconstructing an argument or building on his own.

The moderator make little difference when you literally have no interest in engaging in debate.
 
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ellu said:
Conservatives have zero issue getting fair debates. Trump is not a consultative. He's a Trumper. He's anti intellectual. Does not care about depth of topic. Thinks debating is hurling one liners, engaging in ad hominem and performing. Bristles at fact checking. Can't be nuanced. Makes proclamations and abhors when they are challenged.

This isn't Nixon Kennedy. This isn't Baldwin Buckley. It's not even Obama Romney or Bush Gore.

This is a performer who will echo things he's said in rallies, eschew factual information, refuse to dig into the minutia of an issue and thinks scoring zingers is akin to winning as opposed to deconstructing an argument or building on his own.

The moderator make little difference when you literally have no interest in engaging in debate.
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And you are the authority on who is an intellectual and who isn't? Did you consider one of the worst Presidents of our time ,Barak Obama a phony elitist and a failure or a great intellectual? He is the cause of the racial tensions we have today. Just look at what the lack of action by Obama and Holder with the Ferguson situation caused? It carries over to today.
 
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Allied2651 said:
And you are the authority on who is an intellectual and who isn't? Did you consider one of the worst Presidents of our time ,Barak Obama a phony elitist and a failure or a great intellectual? He is the cause of the racial tensions we have today. Just look at what the lack of action by Obama and Holder with the Ferguson situation caused? It carries over to today.
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I'm not an authority on intellectualism.

I would ask you to objectively compare their academic credentials, if meritocracy is the question. One had a lawyer have his transcripts silenced. The other was elected as the Editor of his Law Review at an Ivy League school. I was on a law review, it wasn't "THE" Miami Law Review, wasn't even the International Law Review nor was it the Business Law Review, the three most prestigious at U Law, and it still placed me in the upper part of my class. I'd venture to say the Editor of THE Law Review at Harvard would be considered by most, at a minimum, intellectual. https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1990/2/6/obama-named-new-law-review-president/

Pew Research is a non partisan (definitely not liberal leaning) group. This is the popular view of Presidents in 2018. https://www.pewresearch.org/politic...in-their-lifetime-followed-by-clinton-reagan/ My point is simply you said worst President of our time. Not many would agree. Its intellectually dishonest when he is bracketed by Bush (who I did not dislike) and Trump. Objective metrics would not place him as the worst if for nothing else, the job he did pulling out out of the economic crisis of 2007. I'll allow you to do your own research, not parrot shit that you've read, your own research (or be a parrot, frankly its not my job to provide you data freely available any with the actual interest in finding it).

Stating that Barak Obama is the cause of racial tension is statement of such intellectual dishonesty that it literally doesn't deserve a response. Because this is a sports site I'll use sports as a way to illustrate how fictive that statement is. Jack Johnson, Jessie Owens, Joe Lewis, Earl Lloyd, Jackie Robinson, Earnie Davis, Don Haskins, Althea Gibson, Lew Alcindor, John Carlos, Tommy Smith, Muhammad Ali, Al Campanis, Frank Robinson, Arthur Ashe, Art Shell, Doug Williams, John Thompson, Craig Hodges, Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, Carlos Delgado...all before Obama. Would you like me to do civil unrest? How about legal changes and challenges? Here, a video for your you.

Regarding Ferguson, is your argument that Obama should brought charges? Did he also kill Trayvon? These the first two incidents of their kind in history? Recent history, recent being 2000 or after??? 1990 or after??? 1980 or after??? 1970 or after??? I mean do we really need to do the 60's? Obama was responsible for Arthur McDuffie? Diallo?
 
Racial tensions got worse under Obama and Holder who had the ability to intercede and reduce tensions. Inaction made it worse. I am not saying that administration would have solved the Ferguson problem but would have gone a long way to reducing the violence by providing some words of calmness . Their lack of involvement gave rioters what seemed as a stamp of approval to continue their rioting. It was just another failure of the Obama administration.
 
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Allied2651 said:
Racial tensions got worse under Obama and Holder who had the ability to intercede and reduce tensions. Inaction made it worse. I am not saying that administration would have solved the Ferguson problem but would have gone a long way to reducing the violence by providing some words of calmness . Their lack of involvement gave rioters what seemed as a stamp of approval to continue their rioting. It was just another failure of the Obama administration.
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Got worse than when exactly? When were they better? Honest question, your claiming they got worse needs some foundation. Post Civil War? What about the Red Summer? Tulsa Oklahoma? Rosewood, FL? Have you read Buried in Bitter Waters? Are you talking post Watts? Post McDuffie? Crown Heights? Post Rodney King? When was it better? Cincy in 01? What exactly made it worse?

As for calming words? 6:30/7:14 is what you are asking?
Juxtapose this with 45 literally leading lock her up chants after a right wing terrorist group were plotting to kidnap, try and execute a sitting governor. Or any other of his performative aspects. Again its intellectualism versus agitprop.

Would you like a transcript? Care to watch the video after the grand jury did not return a verdict? How about the fact that after investigation he elected not to have federal charges brought.

How again is he responsible? How are they both? or is it because they are both...Dems?
 
Best thing that can happen. Dems do not realize how they are destroying a one time very proud Party. They are the reason President Trump is President. Example 33 shot six dead in Chicago and as Usually no outcry from Dems. President Trump has the guts to call it out.
 
ellu said:
Got worse than when exactly? When were they better? Honest question, your claiming they got worse needs some foundation. Post Civil War? What about the Red Summer? Tulsa Oklahoma? Rosewood, FL? Have you read Buried in Bitter Waters? Are you talking post Watts? Post McDuffie? Crown Heights? Post Rodney King? When was it better? Cincy in 01? What exactly made it worse?

As for calming words?
View embedded media
6:30/7:14 is what you are asking?
Juxtapose this with 45 literally leading lock her up chants after a right wing terrorist group were plotting to kidnap, try and execute a sitting governor. Or any other of his performative aspects. Again its intellectualism versus agitprop.

Would you like a transcript? Care to watch the video after the grand jury did not return a verdict? How about the fact that after investigation he elected not to have federal charges brought.

How again is he responsible? How are they both? or is it because they are both...Dems?
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His typical insincere speech where he indicates calm however speaks to the Police Dept through the media and general public to make sure that the Police conduct a thorough investigation and the media , typically there to sell their hysteria to the public, do not get locked up . He never did have that MLK quality in his delivery . I would not call that a video to sincerely ask for restraint.
Obama had the opportunity when elected to be the Jackie Robinson of politics. He failed miserably at providing that leadership to the American people. His constant apologizing to world leaders and countries for what he perceived to be our aggressive attitude and aggressive past as a country was disgusting. Overall he wasn't the worst President in my top 5. He comes out as #3. The worst being Lyndon Johnson who lied to the American public telling us about advisors being sent to Vietnam while actually sending ultimately 500k troops resulting in over 56k lives lost. My #2 is Jimmy Carter who was responsible for the mishandling of the Iran hostage affair and 18% + interest rates domestically causing havoc in the business world. #3 is our guy Barak. Their is some of your timeline you are asking for and a sampling of their deficiencies.
 
bobbie jo said:
Best thing that can happen. Dems do not realize how they are destroying a one time very proud Party. They are the reason President Trump is President. Example 33 shot six dead in Chicago and as Usually no outcry from Dems. President Trump has the guts to call it out.
Click to expand...

I know folks like to cry out about Chicago and the disgusting rates of death there. Fact. It’s not true. Fact. There are many ground roots efforts to curb the violence spanning for decades. Marches, initiatives, coalitions. The outcry is loud, louder than the dog whistles. Perhaps a little research on causation? History of the causes ? Maybe update this chart in gun murders in inner city Chicago which truly highlights just how performative the “outrage” is.
 
Allied2651 said:
His typical insincere speech where he indicates calm however speaks to the Police Dept through the media and general public to make sure that the Police conduct a thorough investigation and the media , typically there to sell their hysteria to the public, do not get locked up . He never did have that MLK quality in his delivery . I would not call that a video to sincerely ask for restraint.
Obama had the opportunity when elected to be the Jackie Robinson of politics. He failed miserably at providing that leadership to the American people. His constant apologizing to world leaders and countries for what he perceived to be our aggressive attitude and aggressive past as a country was disgusting. Overall he wasn't the worst President in my top 5. He comes out as #3. The worst being Lyndon Johnson who lied to the American public telling us about advisors being sent to Vietnam while actually sending ultimately 500k troops resulting in over 56k lives lost. My #2 is Jimmy Carter who was responsible for the mishandling of the Iran hostage affair and 18% + interest rates domestically causing havoc in the business world. #3 is our guy Barak. Their is some of your timeline you are asking for and a sampling of their deficiencies.
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The question was on intellectualism. Are you at once saying essentially his approach was intellectual and ineffective or are you abandoning the intellectual aspect and strictly highlighting what you feel was ineffective? If so would you also, at least partially, concede that despite his forthright words, you simply discount them. That you ignore his directives to the justice department? That you ignore the results of the investigation. That your basis is in bias not facts.

no one mistakes Obama for MLK as an orator. MLK brought traditional Baptist preacher cadence to his delivery because he was a traditional Baptist preacher. That’s the ambit of Jessie Rev. Abernathy, Al. Obama is Harvard trained orator and it would be disingenuous if that was his normal cadence. But now we are discussing preference of delivery. An examination of the transcript may better highlight factually whether he approaches the issue with an intellectual honesty. Their is a video in November when the Grand Jury returned its decision. Shall I post it?

what would be the Jackie Robinson of politics? Are you saying Obama should have pointed out the hypocrisy of racism? Should have been vocal about the institutional nature of it? Surely you aren’t saying he should have sat during the anthem like Jackie did.

Please highlight what you mean. Given Jackie’s radical approach to racism, if anything, Obama would be passive racially. He was a president for America not black America. That’s a compliment not an indictment.

have you looked at his foreign policy? Can you cite examples of this “constant apologizing” I’ll contrast them, easily.
LBJ passed a certain Act that I would think would raise the old racist out of the bottom. Ford and Nixon dont get a mention? 42????
 
"I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world."


The right of every American to first-class citizenship is the most important issue of our time."

The most luxurious possession, the richest treasure anybody has, is his personal dignity.



I think if we go back and check our record, the Negro has proven beyond a doubt that we have been more than patient in seeking our rights as American citizens.



Many people resented my impatience and honesty, but I never cared about acceptance as much as I cared about respect.



I'm not concerned with your liking or disliking me... All I ask is that you respect me as a human being.



There's not an American in this country free until every one of us is free

Negroes aren't seeking anything which is not good for the nation as well as ourselves. In order for America to be 100 percent strong -- economically, defensively and morally -- we cannot afford the waste of having second- and third-class citizens.

This is what Obama should have been doing? And is it because he was black?
 
I stand by what I clearly stated. Would you trade the Civil Rights act for 56k American Troops killed, 500k " advisors" sent to Vietnam, thousands more dying to this day from Cancers that were caused by chemicals used in Vietnam.
You do realize that the civil rights act of 64 would have come regardless of who would have been in office? There were driving forces behind it. At the end of the day, Johnson was responsible for 10's of thousands of deaths.
Ford was a blur and Nixon was not a bad President he just got caught.
 
Allied2651 said:
I stand by what I clearly stated. Would you trade the Civil Rights act for 56k American Troops killed, 500k " advisors" sent to Vietnam, thousands more dying to this day from Cancers that were caused by chemicals used in Vietnam.
You do realize that the civil rights act of 64 would have come regardless of who would have been in office? There were driving forces behind it. At the end of the day, Johnson was responsible for 10's of thousands of deaths.
Ford was a blur and Nixon was not a bad President he just got caught.
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I'm hawkish. My uncle died in Nam. You realize I"m black or not? IF not, I'm black. Civil Rights trump all (pun fully intended). You can be Ali and refuse to serve in an unjust war and be pro Civil Rights. You can be anti communism and see Vietnam as a way to stop its spread and still be pro Civil Rights. you can give the old racist (Johnson) credit for getting it right.
 
I don't care, nor did I ask whether you are Black or not. What I stated were my beliefs and knowledge of past and present historical opinions with some facts thrown in. What's important going forward is to solve some of the current issues with the best politicians elected . On a personal note I see the Democratic party as needing an ennima. I do not have confidence in many of their legislators to accomplish an improved lifestyle for their constituents. JMO
 
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Allied2651 said:
I don't care, nor did I ask whether you are Black or not. What I stated were my beliefs and knowledge of past and present historical opinions with some facts thrown in. What's important going forward is to solve some of the current issues with the best politicians elected . On a personal note I see the Democratic party as needing an ennima. I do not have confidence in many of their legislators to accomplish an improved lifestyle for their constituents. JMO
Click to expand...

Emphasis added.
 
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