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6882

SuperCane
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Aug 19, 2005
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if everyone is out sourcing their barley to make beer in their garage every where, why are wine makers only making their wines in certain few pockets of the country? Why don’t we see awesome wine makers producing awesome wines from the best grapes from the best regions out of areas not synonymies with wine?
 
if everyone is out sourcing their barley to make beer in their garage every where, why are wine makers only making their wines in certain few pockets of the country? Why don’t we see awesome wine makers producing awesome wines from the best grapes from the best regions out of areas not synonymies with wine?
Sounds like chick talk.
 
if everyone is out sourcing their barley to make beer in their garage every where, why are wine makers only making their wines in certain few pockets of the country? Why don’t we see awesome wine makers producing awesome wines from the best grapes from the best regions out of areas not synonymies with wine?
I don’t drink but a buddy of mine makes his own wine and hooked us up with a bottle and my wife said it was unreal how good it was. It was also extremely high in alcohol content lol. That’s always a win for me!:cool:
 
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if everyone is out sourcing their barley to make beer in their garage every where, why are wine makers only making their wines in certain few pockets of the country? Why don’t we see awesome wine makers producing awesome wines from the best grapes from the best regions out of areas not synonymies with wine?

Fundamental economics. There is a reason that California is a major grape / wine producer .. climate. Farming effectively, getting high yields of quality produce is difficult .. and it is made more difficult if you try to operate at commercial levels in areas that have high humidity and don't provide the benefits of warm days and cool nights. The California coastal area is a dry desert .. naturally minimizes plant diseases (still have to be controlled) and gives a better chance for producing high yields of quality crops. Another region very similar is the Peruvian coast ... dry desert coastal region similar to the Salinas Valley in California. It has become a boom region for grapes, asparagus, avocados and a variety of berry crops.

Those warm days and cool desert nights provide a key micro climate ingredient - temperature differential of 15 - 20 degrees. That enables or results in the fruit produced developing a higher brix level (natural sugars), and enhances overall plant vigor and shelf life and quality of the fruit produced. I have been involved in international farming operations since 1975 .. Panama, Colombia, Peru, Guatemala, Mexico, Dominican Republic, and also in California and Florida. For COMMERCIAL production of grapes ... low humidity, dry desert areas with warm days and cool nights are critical. Production in other regions lacking these fundamental micro climate characteristics is non-competitive from either a quality or cost basis.
 
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289. You nailed it. You can make excellent beer or spirits anywhere.

Wine? Not so much. Need unique combinations of weather and soil to produce outstanding grapes that lead to outstanding wine. I live in Napa and produce a Napa Valley Cabernet blend and a Sonoma Chardonnay each year. Hard, risky (fires, rain, cool weather) but fun work.

Your comments on warm days, cools nights are very correct. Visitors marvel that in July through mid October, temperatures often swing 30 degrees or more on the same day. No summer rain whatsoever. Ex.

* morning 52
* noon 70
* 3pm 82
* 8pm 52

Need a jacket it the morning, shorts and T-shirt’s in the afternoon, a sweater at night in front of the outdoor fireplace. In August, having a Napa Cab with dinner in front of your fireplace on the patio is a thing of great joy.
 
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Need a jacket it the morning, shorts and T-shirt’s in the afternoon, a sweater at night in front of the outdoor fireplace. In August, having a Napa Cab with dinner in front of your fireplace on the patio is a thing of great joy.
For Women?
 
Fundamental economics. There is a reason that California is a major grape / wine producer .. climate. Farming effectively, getting high yields of quality produce is difficult .. and it is made more difficult if you try to operate at commercial levels in areas that have high humidity and don't provide the benefits of warm days and cool nights. The California coastal area is a dry desert .. naturally minimizes plant diseases (still have to be controlled) and gives a better chance for producing high yields of quality crops. Another region very similar is the Peruvian coast ... dry desert coastal region similar to the Salinas Valley in California. It has become a boom region for grapes, asparagus, avocados and a variety of berry crops.

Those warm days and cool desert nights provide a key micro climate ingredient - temperature differential of 15 - 20 degrees. That enables or results in the fruit produced developing a higher brix level (natural sugars), and enhances overall plant vigor and shelf life and quality of the fruit produced. I have been involved in international farming operations since 1975 .. Panama, Colombia, Peru, Guatemala, Mexico, Dominican Republic, and also in California and Florida. For COMMERCIAL production of grapes ... low humidity, dry desert areas with warm days and cool nights are critical. Production in other regions lacking these fundamental micro climate characteristics is non-competitive from either a quality or cost basis.

Could you provide a more thorough answer next time?
 
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Fundamental economics. There is a reason that California is a major grape / wine producer .. climate. Farming effectively, getting high yields of quality produce is difficult .. and it is made more difficult if you try to operate at commercial levels in areas that have high humidity and don't provide the benefits of warm days and cool nights. The California coastal area is a dry desert .. naturally minimizes plant diseases (still have to be controlled) and gives a better chance for producing high yields of quality crops. Another region very similar is the Peruvian coast ... dry desert coastal region similar to the Salinas Valley in California. It has become a boom region for grapes, asparagus, avocados and a variety of berry crops.

Those warm days and cool desert nights provide a key micro climate ingredient - temperature differential of 15 - 20 degrees. That enables or results in the fruit produced developing a higher brix level (natural sugars), and enhances overall plant vigor and shelf life and quality of the fruit produced. I have been involved in international farming operations since 1975 .. Panama, Colombia, Peru, Guatemala, Mexico, Dominican Republic, and also in California and Florida. For COMMERCIAL production of grapes ... low humidity, dry desert areas with warm days and cool nights are critical. Production in other regions lacking these fundamental micro climate characteristics is non-competitive from either a quality or cost basis.

Point is why not buy the grapes from California and make the wine in another state?
 
Point is why not buy the grapes from California and make the wine in another state?

It takes a lot of grapes to make wine.

The wineries in California while very large only have enough land to grow grapes for themselves.
 
Point is why not buy the grapes from California and make the wine in another state?

6882,

This is technically done now. You can’t literally ship the “grapes” from California to another state because the picked grapes spoil within a day or two after harvest. Very, very delicate crop.

You can, however, initiate the wine making process in California (crush the grapes, begin fermentation) and then ship the “juice” to other states or to Canada to finish the winemaking, age and then bottle the wine. A friend of mine owns a large winery in Texas but imports “juice” from grapes he also grows in California. He finishes the process in Texas.

From a regulatory point of view, this can be dicey as state regulators (eg California) are very unhappy if wineries based in Texas label their wines as “California” wines, a much more valuable label than Texas-labelled wine.
 
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6882,

This is technically done now. You can’t literally ship the “grapes” from California to another state because the picked grapes spoil within a day or two after harvest. Very, very delicate crop.

You can, however, initiate the wine making process in California (crush the grapes, begin fermentation) and then ship the “juice” to other states or to Canada to finish the winemaking, age and then bottle the wine. A friend of mine owns a large winery in Texas but imports “juice” from grapes he also grows in California. He finishes the process in Texas.

From a regulatory point of view, this can be dicey as state regulators (eg California) are very unhappy if wineries based in Texas label their wines as “California” wines, a much more valuable label than Texas-labelled wine.

Pretty good explanation. You just always hear of wines like paul hobbs in napa that get their grapes from to kalon in napa or flowers in california that get’s grapes from different sources through out cali every year. With the tax structures as bad as it is over there you’d think some billionaire would have a climate controlled jet that can ship the grapes from napa to a chateau here in floria in a matter of hours where they can make the wine just as good here at less than half the tax structure and a fraction of the real-estate cost. I only ask because the cost of wines out of california are absolutely sky rocketing in price. Even several sonoma wines are well over $100 whole sale now. It’s getting ridiculous and it’s not like these wines are better now than they were ten years ago.
 
289. You nailed it. You can make excellent beer or spirits anywhere.

Wine? Not so much. Need unique combinations of weather and soil to produce outstanding grapes that lead to outstanding wine. I live in Napa and produce a Napa Valley Cabernet blend and a Sonoma Chardonnay each year. Hard, risky (fires, rain, cool weather) but fun work.

Your comments on warm days, cools nights are very correct. Visitors marvel that in July through mid October, temperatures often swing 30 degrees or more on the same day. No summer rain whatsoever. Ex.

* morning 52
* noon 70
* 3pm 82
* 8pm 52

Need a jacket it the morning, shorts and T-shirt’s in the afternoon, a sweater at night in front of the outdoor fireplace. In August, having a Napa Cab with dinner in front of your fireplace on the patio is a thing of great joy.

Nice .. I'm jealous .. would love to have some acreage in that region. You are living the perfect life!!

Right now I'm just looking for 5 acres close to where I am living to put a couple of horses and a small run in shed / stable. My hat is off to anyone farming in Florida with the crazy humidity levels and rain. Weed, disease and fungus control are crazy. The quality characteristics of the produce grown here also suffers due to the lack of the temperature differential. Compare a Florida celery to celery from Salinas .. no comparison. Florida celery LOOKS like celery but is missing like 90% of that strong celery flavor that one finds in a Salinas product .. that is high in natural sugars.
It takes a lot of grapes to make wine.

The wineries in California while very large only have enough land to grow grapes for themselves.

There are hundreds of small boutique wineries in California .. they are everywhere .. not just the large commercial operations like Mondavi. The wine sections of supermarkets in California are incredible .. fun to explore. I spent 2013 living in Pasadena, working in LA, and commuting to visit my wife in Florida twice a month. The house I rented in Pasadena was close to a Vons .. convenient .. and what a wine section. With your "Vons card" a $30 msrp bottle of wine was $25 if you bought one, $20 if you bought two, and down to $12.50 if you bought six. I drank a lot of red wine in 2013!!
 
It takes a lot of grapes to make wine.

The wineries in California while very large only have enough land to grow grapes for themselves.
Pretty much all the top wineries sell off all their grapes that they do not use. Unless it says estate on the btl chances are their grapes are coming from someone else's vineyard.
 
289. You nailed it. You can make excellent beer or spirits anywhere.

Wine? Not so much. Need unique combinations of weather and soil to produce outstanding grapes that lead to outstanding wine. I live in Napa and produce a Napa Valley Cabernet blend and a Sonoma Chardonnay each year. Hard, risky (fires, rain, cool weather) but fun work.

Your comments on warm days, cools nights are very correct. Visitors marvel that in July through mid October, temperatures often swing 30 degrees or more on the same day. No summer rain whatsoever. Ex.

* morning 52
* noon 70
* 3pm 82
* 8pm 52

Need a jacket it the morning, shorts and T-shirt’s in the afternoon, a sweater at night in front of the outdoor fireplace. In August, having a Napa Cab with dinner in front of your fireplace on the patio is a thing of great joy.
You can make beer anywhere but you have to get your barley from only a hand full of places in the us and in particular idaho 75%. Very few breweries grow their own barley. Very few wine makers grow their own grapes.
 
You can make beer anywhere but you have to get your barley from only a hand full of places in the us and in particular idaho 75%. Very few breweries grow their own barley. Very few wine makers grow their own grapes.

Totally different commodities .. but for the large brewers and vintners very similar raw material arrangements. MOST of the grapes grown by grape suppliers in California are long term grower partners of the wineries and they sell fresh grapes .. frequently with a winery rep even involved in grape harvest decisions and field practices that impact grape quality. Many vintners aren't growing grapes .. but they all have specific characteristics that they want for their raw material. Same with large brewers .. the malt suppliers have advance contracts from them so they know how many acres of which type of barley to grow (two row vs six row) and how much barley to malt .. on a schedule. Small brewers can order from malt suppliers on spec .. but bigger guys have advance contracts so acreage IS planted to meet their needs.

Was interesting to see a commercial from Bud not long ago stating something to the effect that they were only using malted barley, water and hops in their brews these days .. no longer using corn syrup and rice. Sierra Nevada and then Sam Adams really did eventually change the US brewing landscape. Same with Robert Mondavi when he started .. going rogue .. and producing varietal wines in California in 1966.
 
wine-is-just-gay-beer-this-is-my-title-39959115.png
 
You can make beer anywhere but you have to get your barley from only a hand full of places in the us and in particular idaho 75%. Very few breweries grow their own barley. Very few wine makers grow their own grapes.

Another key economic factor is .. cost .. freight cost. It's expensive to truck things like grape juice across country .. without damaging quality of the juice. Special trucks, special temperatures .. expensive. Every liquid ounce that is bottled has to trucked. Whereas in the example of beer .. a truckload of bagged malted barley (or rail car load for big brewers) is used to make hundreds of gallons of finished product after the local ingredient .. water .. is added at the point that the brew is done. One truckload of malt might make 10 truckloads of beer .. so the freight cost to move malted barley is a fraction of the cost of moving the wine that is in the finished product.
 
canerob,

Your posts imply that you believe wine is only for women or gay men. It’s that your point?

Thanks.

289,

FYI,

I’m not a beer guy. But, my nephew is part of a private investment group that is investing in specially cultivated hops for top of the line craft beers. Their farms are in Nelson, New Zealand where they sell and export widely.

Their goal is that these high end hops farms will be recognized on beer labels and by consumers to be of the very highest quality. Just as top end vineyards are proudly (eg To Kalon, Beckstoffer) included in the labels of elite Napa wines, they want the hops to be accorded the same respect. If successful, those hops so designated will command a very big price premium over generic hops from places unknown.
 
289,

FYI,

I’m not a beer guy. But, my nephew is part of a private investment group that is investing in specially cultivated hops for top of the line craft beers. Their farms are in Nelson, New Zealand where they sell and export widely.

Their goal is that these high end hops farms will be recognized on beer labels and by consumers to be of the very highest quality. Just as top end vineyards are proudly (eg To Kalon, Beckstoffer) included in the labels of elite Napa wines, they want the hops to be accorded the same respect. If successful, those hops so designated will command a very big price premium over generic hops from places unknown.

Right now the biggest domestic KNOWN (by the public) are the Cascade hops from the Pacific Northwest .. the ones that give so much character to beers like Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and so many craft brewed IPA's. Then .. the Hallertauer hops from Germany use in high end German Pilsners .. Sam Adams uses a lot of those and has contracts with growers in Germany.
 
I don’t drink but a buddy of mine makes his own wine and hooked us up with a bottle and my wife said it was unreal how good it was. It was also extremely high in alcohol content lol. That’s always a win for me!:cool:
Then you're very lucky. The only time I could score a win was after a day of what my ex-wife referred to as "shopping therapy." Of course later she got "alimony therapy" where there were no more wins for me....lol.
 
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Then you're very lucky. The only time I could score a win was after a day of what my ex-wife referred to as "shopping therapy." Of course later she got "alimony therapy" where there were no more wins for me....lol.
Hahaha yeah that’s game over. My wife and I have been married for 15 years and so far so good lol
 
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Fundamental economics. There is a reason that California is a major grape / wine producer .. climate. Farming effectively, getting high yields of quality produce is difficult .. and it is made more difficult if you try to operate at commercial levels in areas that have high humidity and don't provide the benefits of warm days and cool nights. The California coastal area is a dry desert .. naturally minimizes plant diseases (still have to be controlled) and gives a better chance for producing high yields of quality crops. Another region very similar is the Peruvian coast ... dry desert coastal region similar to the Salinas Valley in California. It has become a boom region for grapes, asparagus, avocados and a variety of berry crops.

Those warm days and cool desert nights provide a key micro climate ingredient - temperature differential of 15 - 20 degrees. That enables or results in the fruit produced developing a higher brix level (natural sugars), and enhances overall plant vigor and shelf life and quality of the fruit produced. I have been involved in international farming operations since 1975 .. Panama, Colombia, Peru, Guatemala, Mexico, Dominican Republic, and also in California and Florida. For COMMERCIAL production of grapes ... low humidity, dry desert areas with warm days and cool nights are critical. Production in other regions lacking these fundamental micro climate characteristics is non-competitive from either a quality or cost basis.
Bingo
 
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