Let's try a new thread. The sitution is what it is now. Unfortunately it does not appear that any kind of good ending is going to happen. It looks like Russia will slowly and brutally take over Ukraine. WW1 & WW2 brought into our living rooms. Everyone has said control of Ukraine will be hell to the Russians. It will. So the horror slows a bit, but it still remains. Ukraine is a completely hollowed mess. But the Russians will be sending body bags of teen age boys home. NATO is not going to attack Russia, Russia won't go further and the country of Ukraine will have been mutually sacrificed so both sides can claim victory. But the area will remain in a cold to warm war. NATO could easily take back Ukraine, but they won't out of fear of Putin shooting nukes. And he would if he felt the walls were closing in. That is the problem. Putin is not going to surrender himself to the UN.
So what are the best feasible options now? Let's see if we can try to keep this thread somewhat on subject. At this point Hunter and Trump will have nothing to do with a solution. Strong disagreements and debate are interesting. A little parody and sarcasm is also good. Obviously we are not going to change anything, but let's try some essays based upon where things are today, not what should have been done years ago.
IMO, it is in the best interest of Ukraine to live to fight another day. The US and NATO are not going to establish a no fly zone. They are not going to send in troops. The time has passed for establishing high end anti aircraft and missile defenses. The Russians know what roads weapons will come in on and destroy most equipment before it gets into Ukrainian hands. They will shoot down Ukrainian planes coming from other countries. We risk having US/NATO "advisors killed when setting up or training Ukraine. What happens when body bags with "advisors" come back to US soil? The Ukrainians are fighting bravely but they are outmanned and outgunned. Russia controls the sky's and the water. The US media and political class love to cheer the brave Ukrainian fight from their comfy dens in Georgetown and Manhattan. But Ukraine is not going to win in March 2022. Why not save Ukrainian lives and not have the cities leveled into Syria style dust? Get Zalensky and those that would be in danger of Russian reprisals out. Lt them set up a government in exile.
Start with an attempt to give Putin eastern Ukraine and some of the South. Try to keep Kiev and Ukraine proper separate under a Russian approved Ukrainian government. Not unlike much of Ukraine's recent history. Yes it is horrible for Ukraine to temporarily live under a puppet government. But is being bombed into oblivion without, food, power or fresh water a better option? I do believe that there are enough historic ties between the slavic people that there will not be genocide. And I am sure there will be a "resistance" that will make Russia's stay miserable. I do not see Putin going further. He knows his army was highly over rated. He will attempt to fix that before he attempts any other mischief.
By doing this Putin is forced to continue to have to arm and feed an army that is not happy about the mission. Many Russian's feel they are fighting their brothers. This allows the sanctions to begin to take hold. Short term Putin does not care if an Oligarchs wife can not have a Louie bag on the store shelves. But when sanctions ultimately affect everyday life, especially the military, then things will change. Inside of Russia, people in power will hopefully see that there is a better way than being an international pariah state.
Now to the hard part. Keeping Putin in power is Russia's sale of raw materials. Energy in particular. The current European sanctions are swiss cheese. Russia will ship oil and get paid. Germany is not going to put its economy in a summer (and ongoing) recession by attempting to get by with half of the energy it needs. The real solution is for the US and others to immediately increase fossil fuel production. That is what works today. Europe can create more energy. They also have anti fracking laws in place. But the US can rapidly scale up to make ourselves and Europe no longer need Russian oil. That is the ultimate sanction. So does Biden make the obviously right choice? Go back to Trump energy policies and even put them on steroids. Operation Warp Drive! Cripple Putin's cash cow ultimately have Russia so weak or having a regime change to free Ukraine and reduce US inflation. Or does he continue to cower to AOC, Nancy Pelosi, Greta Thunberg and the green weenies? Is WW3 and millions of Ukrainian lives worth Biden keeping ridiculous promises to the radical left?
JMO. What do others think are plausible solutions from where things are today?
So what are the best feasible options now? Let's see if we can try to keep this thread somewhat on subject. At this point Hunter and Trump will have nothing to do with a solution. Strong disagreements and debate are interesting. A little parody and sarcasm is also good. Obviously we are not going to change anything, but let's try some essays based upon where things are today, not what should have been done years ago.
IMO, it is in the best interest of Ukraine to live to fight another day. The US and NATO are not going to establish a no fly zone. They are not going to send in troops. The time has passed for establishing high end anti aircraft and missile defenses. The Russians know what roads weapons will come in on and destroy most equipment before it gets into Ukrainian hands. They will shoot down Ukrainian planes coming from other countries. We risk having US/NATO "advisors killed when setting up or training Ukraine. What happens when body bags with "advisors" come back to US soil? The Ukrainians are fighting bravely but they are outmanned and outgunned. Russia controls the sky's and the water. The US media and political class love to cheer the brave Ukrainian fight from their comfy dens in Georgetown and Manhattan. But Ukraine is not going to win in March 2022. Why not save Ukrainian lives and not have the cities leveled into Syria style dust? Get Zalensky and those that would be in danger of Russian reprisals out. Lt them set up a government in exile.
Start with an attempt to give Putin eastern Ukraine and some of the South. Try to keep Kiev and Ukraine proper separate under a Russian approved Ukrainian government. Not unlike much of Ukraine's recent history. Yes it is horrible for Ukraine to temporarily live under a puppet government. But is being bombed into oblivion without, food, power or fresh water a better option? I do believe that there are enough historic ties between the slavic people that there will not be genocide. And I am sure there will be a "resistance" that will make Russia's stay miserable. I do not see Putin going further. He knows his army was highly over rated. He will attempt to fix that before he attempts any other mischief.
By doing this Putin is forced to continue to have to arm and feed an army that is not happy about the mission. Many Russian's feel they are fighting their brothers. This allows the sanctions to begin to take hold. Short term Putin does not care if an Oligarchs wife can not have a Louie bag on the store shelves. But when sanctions ultimately affect everyday life, especially the military, then things will change. Inside of Russia, people in power will hopefully see that there is a better way than being an international pariah state.
Now to the hard part. Keeping Putin in power is Russia's sale of raw materials. Energy in particular. The current European sanctions are swiss cheese. Russia will ship oil and get paid. Germany is not going to put its economy in a summer (and ongoing) recession by attempting to get by with half of the energy it needs. The real solution is for the US and others to immediately increase fossil fuel production. That is what works today. Europe can create more energy. They also have anti fracking laws in place. But the US can rapidly scale up to make ourselves and Europe no longer need Russian oil. That is the ultimate sanction. So does Biden make the obviously right choice? Go back to Trump energy policies and even put them on steroids. Operation Warp Drive! Cripple Putin's cash cow ultimately have Russia so weak or having a regime change to free Ukraine and reduce US inflation. Or does he continue to cower to AOC, Nancy Pelosi, Greta Thunberg and the green weenies? Is WW3 and millions of Ukrainian lives worth Biden keeping ridiculous promises to the radical left?
JMO. What do others think are plausible solutions from where things are today?
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