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Up 17% in Wisconsin? How people vote...............

HJCane

SuperCane
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Jun 2, 2007
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I don't think so unless Wisconsin voters are brain dead. Just the USMCA alone did more for Wisconsin then any piece of legislation in modern times. Opened up Canada to dairy farmers to sell their milk and cheese which just happens to be one of the largest industries in Wisconsin. Remember Canada was CLOSED to that with NAFTA. I don't believe that number. Biden might take Wisconsin but he isn't leading by 17 points. I recently spoke to a designer friend of mine and he is Gay and very successful. One of the best in South Florida. Going back and forth with him on how well he is doing financially, how great the economy has been to him and his company , how great he is still doing during Covid. But he is Gay so he tells me that he is voting for Biden (understanding he is above the 400K BS tax hike number) because he doesn't want the Gay rights reversed. This is how fear from the media works. People believe this stuff. Republicans are NOT homophobes, not lo, looking to reverse course on Gay rights, not racists, not anti-immigration. It's a tactic and sadly it works on far too many. All the groups I mention above are throughout society on both sides of the aisle but they are NOT mainstream thankfully.
 
100% agree on several things.
1. No ****ing way Trump loses Whiskey by 7 let alone 17. He could still win it.
2. Republicans are NOT homophobes et al.

and this is where we differ.

Trump is not a Republican. He is a Republican in Name Only. He literally has his own school of thought which does not incorporate most traditional Republican presidential beliefs and norms.

He absolutely has appointed judges throughout the lower courts, court of appeals and the SCOTUS that will overturn/encroach on gay rights movement advances.

His immigration policies have been demonstrated in the last four years. From an unlawful religious test to a physical wall.

He traffics in racism if he isn't racist, obfuscating his actual knowledge and pandering to the worst extremes. He will speak extemporaneously for 4 minutes on ANTIFA's ills and BLM's problematic aspects but can only muster a 4-7 word response when pressed for condemnation of white supremacy. I watch his speeches, everyone of them, he never includes white supremacy as a part of his off the script commentary, he always works in ANTIFA and BLM multiple times.

I don't know what this sentence was intended to mean. "All the groups I mention above are throughout society on both sides of the aisle but they are NOT mainstream thankfully. "

Trump supporters have a hard time looking at him objectively. Your friend, it appears, isn't placing his personal pocket over personal politics.
 
100% agree on several things.
1. No ****ing way Trump loses Whiskey by 7 let alone 17. He could still win it.
2. Republicans are NOT homophobes et al.

and this is where we differ.

Trump is not a Republican. He is a Republican in Name Only. He literally has his own school of thought which does not incorporate most traditional Republican presidential beliefs and norms.

He absolutely has appointed judges throughout the lower courts, court of appeals and the SCOTUS that will overturn/encroach on gay rights movement advances.

His immigration policies have been demonstrated in the last four years. From an unlawful religious test to a physical wall.

He traffics in racism if he isn't racist, obfuscating his actual knowledge and pandering to the worst extremes. He will speak extemporaneously for 4 minutes on ANTIFA's ills and BLM's problematic aspects but can only muster a 4-7 word response when pressed for condemnation of white supremacy. I watch his speeches, everyone of them, he never includes white supremacy as a part of his off the script commentary, he always works in ANTIFA and BLM multiple times.

I don't know what this sentence was intended to mean. "All the groups I mention above are throughout society on both sides of the aisle but they are NOT mainstream thankfully. "

Trump supporters have a hard time looking at him objectively. Your friend, it appears, isn't placing his personal pocket over personal politics.
Trumps actions speak differently. He has been labeled racist by the media so often that people begin to believe it. Nobody is overturning gay rights we aren’t going backwards. He says stupid shit no doubt about it.
 
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100% agree on several things.
1. No ****ing way Trump loses Whiskey by 7 let alone 17. He could still win it.
2. Republicans are NOT homophobes et al.

and this is where we differ.

Trump is not a Republican. He is a Republican in Name Only. He literally has his own school of thought which does not incorporate most traditional Republican presidential beliefs and norms.

He absolutely has appointed judges throughout the lower courts, court of appeals and the SCOTUS that will overturn/encroach on gay rights movement advances.

His immigration policies have been demonstrated in the last four years. From an unlawful religious test to a physical wall.

He traffics in racism if he isn't racist, obfuscating his actual knowledge and pandering to the worst extremes. He will speak extemporaneously for 4 minutes on ANTIFA's ills and BLM's problematic aspects but can only muster a 4-7 word response when pressed for condemnation of white supremacy. I watch his speeches, everyone of them, he never includes white supremacy as a part of his off the script commentary, he always works in ANTIFA and BLM multiple times.

I don't know what this sentence was intended to mean. "All the groups I mention above are throughout society on both sides of the aisle but they are NOT mainstream thankfully. "

Trump supporters have a hard time looking at him objectively. Your friend, it appears, isn't placing his personal pocket over personal politics.
And the sentence you question which was poorly written meant that there are racists, homophobes on both sides of the aisle but I believe it to be the minority of people. I am realistic to know that all people carry pre conceived notions about other races that are engrained in them but that does not mean they are racist it means that we all subconsciously stereotype others. All Jews have big noses or are all rich is but an example of what some think about my people.
 
And the sentence you question which was poorly written meant that there are racists, homophobes on both sides of the aisle but I believe it to be the minority of people. I am realistic to know that all people carry pre conceived notions about other races that are engrained in them but that does not mean they are racist it means that we all subconsciously stereotype others. All Jews have big noses or are all rich is but an example of what some think about my people.
A large majority of Jewish people are liberal Dems, so your opinions are not the norm for that majority. The Jewish Democratic Council for America compared the nation under President Trump to Germany under Adolf Hitler in the 1930s.
 
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I don't think so unless Wisconsin voters are brain dead. Just the USMCA alone did more for Wisconsin then any piece of legislation in modern times. Opened up Canada to dairy farmers to sell their milk and cheese which just happens to be one of the largest industries in Wisconsin. Remember Canada was CLOSED to that with NAFTA. I don't believe that number. Biden might take Wisconsin but he isn't leading by 17 points. I recently spoke to a designer friend of mine and he is Gay and very successful. One of the best in South Florida. Going back and forth with him on how well he is doing financially, how great the economy has been to him and his company , how great he is still doing during Covid. But he is Gay so he tells me that he is voting for Biden (understanding he is above the 400K BS tax hike number) because he doesn't want the Gay rights reversed. This is how fear from the media works. People believe this stuff. Republicans are NOT homophobes, not lo, looking to reverse course on Gay rights, not racists, not anti-immigration. It's a tactic and sadly it works on far too many. All the groups I mention above are throughout society on both sides of the aisle but they are NOT mainstream thankfully.


IMO one of the few things the Red and Blue can agree upon is the increasing uselessness of polls. 99% of the polls have an agenda. And by the wording of the questions and their sampling methodology they can scew the numbers for what they want to present. Poll A in Florida polls Century Village and finds a solid Biden lead. Poll B sampling in rural Northern Florida finds Trump with a substantial lead. Both polls thinks they are smart and the public is stupid. They are PAID for by one candidate or the other to show a preferred result.

Also many citizens no longer answer polls at all or not honestly because the are fearful of their information being used to harass them (e.g. Doxing, IRS audit, etc). And does any one with a brain trust Facebook, Google or Twitter anymore to not impose their Sr. Level Mgmt bias on their platforms. That is a subject for a separate thread in the future. But to conclude- IMO, Political Polling has become useless due to the two reasons stated in the first paragraph.
 
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100% agree on several things.
1. No ****ing way Trump loses Whiskey by 7 let alone 17. He could still win it.
2. Republicans are NOT homophobes et al.

and this is where we differ.

Trump is not a Republican. He is a Republican in Name Only. He literally has his own school of thought which does not incorporate most traditional Republican presidential beliefs and norms.

He absolutely has appointed judges throughout the lower courts, court of appeals and the SCOTUS that will overturn/encroach on gay rights movement advances.

His immigration policies have been demonstrated in the last four years. From an unlawful religious test to a physical wall.

He traffics in racism if he isn't racist, obfuscating his actual knowledge and pandering to the worst extremes. He will speak extemporaneously for 4 minutes on ANTIFA's ills and BLM's problematic aspects but can only muster a 4-7 word response when pressed for condemnation of white supremacy. I watch his speeches, everyone of them, he never includes white supremacy as a part of his off the script commentary, he always works in ANTIFA and BLM multiple times.

I don't know what this sentence was intended to mean. "All the groups I mention above are throughout society on both sides of the aisle but they are NOT mainstream thankfully. "

Trump supporters have a hard time looking at him objectively. Your friend, it appears, isn't placing his personal pocket over personal politics.
Are you therefore implying that TDS victims look at him objectively???
By the way ellu, people historically vote their pocket books. It’s even better inTrumps case When you like his economics and politics.
All you do is knock Trump, I havent heard you expound on all the wonderful platforms of joe that you endorse????
 
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Are you therefore implying that TDS victims look at him objectively???
By the way ellu, people historically vote their pocket books. It’s even better inTrumps case When you like his economics and politics.
All you do is knock Trump, I havent heard you expound on all the wonderful platforms of joe that you endorse????
TDS is a marketing phrase used to counter folks who point out the consistent absurdities that Trump employs. It is a blanket employed to suppress truth. If you point out that Trump likes to embellish, obfuscate and flat out lie, TDS is used as a defense. If you cite his misrepresentations and inconsistencies its TDS. If you literally quote him stating x in one breath and y 24 hours of breath later, its TDS. Often his supporters state he is joking when he says offensive outrageous things, then they support policies that are designed to enact those things he was "joking about" and then they literally support him in saying the outrageous things, gaslighting that they never disbelieved his intent, pointing out this untruth is called TDS.

If his policies are opposite of conservatism, its TDS. Conservatives have forever been free market, suddenly, approaching treatise the way Bernie Sanders does is "conservative" and pointing this out is TDS.

Democrats were the emotional appealing sorts that painted the hard cold logic of the GOP as Spockian in its pragmatic application of real world solutions founded on intellectualism, not emotion. Trumpism rejects intellectualism, pragmatism and is steeped in recrimination, punitive retribution and divisiveness. He makes statements that demonstrate this, frequently, and to point them out results in the label of TDS.

So I tend to ignore TDS when employed, certainly when "victims look at him objectively" is concatenated with the phrase. Use of the phrase itself requires a subjective assessment.

Historically people do not vote their pocketbooks. Again, I reference Hillbilly Elegy, but for specific examples. Black middle and upper class do not. Dr. King, a Ph.d. voted with sanitation workers. Thurgood Marshall and Walter White, attorneys, voted with the poor. Personally I vote for equality and economic equality over my own economic positions. Frankly I find it selfish to even imply that self-centered fiscal voting is the single issue. I'd vote for a position that supports the men and women who serve in the military before I'd vote in a way that worked best for my 401k. I can think of a number of examples of things that would place my financial wealth secondary; civil rights, children's rights, parental rights, immigration, religious freedoms, autonomy of health (pre-existing, women's autonomy, healthcare as a right) I think you get the point.

Republicans that cut social support systems, reduce government assistance and eschew expanding medical care opportunities under the ACA also find enormous support in populations that rely on welfare, food stamps, WIC and public health care systems. Red states are full of these and they are labeled "working class" when white. None of these folks, when voting for the current adminsitration, are voting for their fiscal best interest. And that's fine by me, I'm pointing out the inconsistency in the statement you made. Many of the MAGA I know are quite poor folks who vote on their emotion, not their wallets.

As for Joe. I do like some of his policies. But make no mistake, I'm far more interested in the cult of personality, RINO that is Trump being removed.

I like Biden's history of working with both sides of the aisle to reach resolution, his respect of and belief in the institution of the US government, his moderate fiscal policies that emphasize balancing budgets, rejecting deficit spending (unless necessary due to force majures). I like the idea of putting Americans back to work with infrastructure improvement projects. I like his plan for vocational training and community college access. I like his desire to reduce carbon emissions and to be at the front of the global transition to alternative energy sources. I like his hawkish tendencies.

Those are just quick things that come to mind, I've many more but this post is long enough.

Basically a man that can unite the center right and center left will always be more attractive to me than one who literally dismisses half of the country. When Colin, Kasich and Fiorina endorse Biden its disingenuous to paint his positions as baseless or you could just hide behind the excuse of the marketing device and repeat the mantra of the inculcated...TDS.
 
I don't think so unless Wisconsin voters are brain dead. Just the USMCA alone did more for Wisconsin then any piece of legislation in modern times. Opened up Canada to dairy farmers to sell their milk and cheese which just happens to be one of the largest industries in Wisconsin. Remember Canada was CLOSED to that with NAFTA. I don't believe that number. Biden might take Wisconsin but he isn't leading by 17 points. I recently spoke to a designer friend of mine and he is Gay and very successful. One of the best in South Florida. Going back and forth with him on how well he is doing financially, how great the economy has been to him and his company , how great he is still doing during Covid. But he is Gay so he tells me that he is voting for Biden (understanding he is above the 400K BS tax hike number) because he doesn't want the Gay rights reversed. This is how fear from the media works. People believe this stuff. Republicans are NOT homophobes, not lo, looking to reverse course on Gay rights, not racists, not anti-immigration. It's a tactic and sadly it works on far too many. All the groups I mention above are throughout society on both sides of the aisle but they are NOT mainstream thankfully.
Kayleigh Macenmy just stated in early voting Trump is up 8% in Wisconsin
 
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TDS is a marketing phrase used to counter folks who point out the consistent absurdities that Trump employs. It is a blanket employed to suppress truth. If you point out that Trump likes to embellish, obfuscate and flat out lie, TDS is used as a defense. If you cite his misrepresentations and inconsistencies its TDS. If you literally quote him stating x in one breath and y 24 hours of breath later, its TDS. Often his supporters state he is joking when he says offensive outrageous things, then they support policies that are designed to enact those things he was "joking about" and then they literally support him in saying the outrageous things, gaslighting that they never disbelieved his intent, pointing out this untruth is called TDS.

If his policies are opposite of conservatism, its TDS. Conservatives have forever been free market, suddenly, approaching treatise the way Bernie Sanders does is "conservative" and pointing this out is TDS.

Democrats were the emotional appealing sorts that painted the hard cold logic of the GOP as Spockian in its pragmatic application of real world solutions founded on intellectualism, not emotion. Trumpism rejects intellectualism, pragmatism and is steeped in recrimination, punitive retribution and divisiveness. He makes statements that demonstrate this, frequently, and to point them out results in the label of TDS.

So I tend to ignore TDS when employed, certainly when "victims look at him objectively" is concatenated with the phrase. Use of the phrase itself requires a subjective assessment.

Historically people do not vote their pocketbooks. Again, I reference Hillbilly Elegy, but for specific examples. Black middle and upper class do not. Dr. King, a Ph.d. voted with sanitation workers. Thurgood Marshall and Walter White, attorneys, voted with the poor. Personally I vote for equality and economic equality over my own economic positions. Frankly I find it selfish to even imply that self-centered fiscal voting is the single issue. I'd vote for a position that supports the men and women who serve in the military before I'd vote in a way that worked best for my 401k. I can think of a number of examples of things that would place my financial wealth secondary; civil rights, children's rights, parental rights, immigration, religious freedoms, autonomy of health (pre-existing, women's autonomy, healthcare as a right) I think you get the point.

Republicans that cut social support systems, reduce government assistance and eschew expanding medical care opportunities under the ACA also find enormous support in populations that rely on welfare, food stamps, WIC and public health care systems. Red states are full of these and they are labeled "working class" when white. None of these folks, when voting for the current adminsitration, are voting for their fiscal best interest. And that's fine by me, I'm pointing out the inconsistency in the statement you made. Many of the MAGA I know are quite poor folks who vote on their emotion, not their wallets.

As for Joe. I do like some of his policies. But make no mistake, I'm far more interested in the cult of personality, RINO that is Trump being removed.

I like Biden's history of working with both sides of the aisle to reach resolution, his respect of and belief in the institution of the US government, his moderate fiscal policies that emphasize balancing budgets, rejecting deficit spending (unless necessary due to force majures). I like the idea of putting Americans back to work with infrastructure improvement projects. I like his plan for vocational training and community college access. I like his desire to reduce carbon emissions and to be at the front of the global transition to alternative energy sources. I like his hawkish tendencies.

Those are just quick things that come to mind, I've many more but this post is long enough.

Basically a man that can unite the center right and center left will always be more attractive to me than one who literally dismisses half of the country. When Colin, Kasich and Fiorina endorse Biden its disingenuous to paint his positions as baseless or you could just hide behind the excuse of the marketing device and repeat the mantra of the inculcated...TDS.
12 million more people on food stamps under Obama / Biden, gas prices near $4 per gallon, debt doubled to 77% of GNP, alternative energy sources has been going on public / private sectors and has continued under Trump another train that has left the station never to return. Infrastructure? ACA that doubled premiums, 4.7 million LOST their insurance, couldn't keep your doctor, deductibles soared, choices vanished. Ellu I know you're a smart guy but the facts don't support your assertions here.
 
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TDS is a marketing phrase used to counter folks who point out the consistent absurdities that Trump employs. It is a blanket employed to suppress truth. If you point out that Trump likes to embellish, obfuscate and flat out lie, TDS is used as a defense. If you cite his misrepresentations and inconsistencies its TDS. If you literally quote him stating x in one breath and y 24 hours of breath later, its TDS. Often his supporters state he is joking when he says offensive outrageous things, then they support policies that are designed to enact those things he was "joking about" and then they literally support him in saying the outrageous things, gaslighting that they never disbelieved his intent, pointing out this untruth is called TDS.

If his policies are opposite of conservatism, its TDS. Conservatives have forever been free market, suddenly, approaching treatise the way Bernie Sanders does is "conservative" and pointing this out is TDS.

Democrats were the emotional appealing sorts that painted the hard cold logic of the GOP as Spockian in its pragmatic application of real world solutions founded on intellectualism, not emotion. Trumpism rejects intellectualism, pragmatism and is steeped in recrimination, punitive retribution and divisiveness. He makes statements that demonstrate this, frequently, and to point them out results in the label of TDS.

So I tend to ignore TDS when employed, certainly when "victims look at him objectively" is concatenated with the phrase. Use of the phrase itself requires a subjective assessment.

Historically people do not vote their pocketbooks. Again, I reference Hillbilly Elegy, but for specific examples. Black middle and upper class do not. Dr. King, a Ph.d. voted with sanitation workers. Thurgood Marshall and Walter White, attorneys, voted with the poor. Personally I vote for equality and economic equality over my own economic positions. Frankly I find it selfish to even imply that self-centered fiscal voting is the single issue. I'd vote for a position that supports the men and women who serve in the military before I'd vote in a way that worked best for my 401k. I can think of a number of examples of things that would place my financial wealth secondary; civil rights, children's rights, parental rights, immigration, religious freedoms, autonomy of health (pre-existing, women's autonomy, healthcare as a right) I think you get the point.

Republicans that cut social support systems, reduce government assistance and eschew expanding medical care opportunities under the ACA also find enormous support in populations that rely on welfare, food stamps, WIC and public health care systems. Red states are full of these and they are labeled "working class" when white. None of these folks, when voting for the current adminsitration, are voting for their fiscal best interest. And that's fine by me, I'm pointing out the inconsistency in the statement you made. Many of the MAGA I know are quite poor folks who vote on their emotion, not their wallets.

As for Joe. I do like some of his policies. But make no mistake, I'm far more interested in the cult of personality, RINO that is Trump being removed.

I like Biden's history of working with both sides of the aisle to reach resolution, his respect of and belief in the institution of the US government, his moderate fiscal policies that emphasize balancing budgets, rejecting deficit spending (unless necessary due to force majures). I like the idea of putting Americans back to work with infrastructure improvement projects. I like his plan for vocational training and community college access. I like his desire to reduce carbon emissions and to be at the front of the global transition to alternative energy sources. I like his hawkish tendencies.

Those are just quick things that come to mind, I've many more but this post is long enough.

Basically a man that can unite the center right and center left will always be more attractive to me than one who literally dismisses half of the country. When Colin, Kasich and Fiorina endorse Biden its disingenuous to paint his positions as baseless or you could just hide behind the excuse of the marketing device and repeat the mantra of the inculcated...TDS.
So the truth is buried midway in a typical lawyer’s fashion of mental masturbation.
You simply dont like Trump.
“I’m far more interested in the cult of personality, RINO that is Trump being removed”
The points you make are vague, Trump is already doing it, or you ignore far greater impacts that Trump has already done for black universities and colleges, and individuals.
Trump has done more for the military than Barry/joey did in 8 years, besides appearing to be all talk no action. Example being the red line Barry drew and when crossed said/did NADA
Biden a hawk???? Lmao
 
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12 million more people on food stamps under Obama / Biden, gas prices near $4 per gallon, debt doubled to 77% of GNP, alternative energy sources has been going on public / private sectors and has continued under Trump another train that has left the station never to return. Infrastructure? ACA that doubled premiums, 4.7 million LOST their insurance, couldn't keep your doctor, deductibles soared, choices vanished. Ellu I know you're a smart guy but the facts don't support your assertions here.
food stamps went down over 5 million under Obama. As the economy recovered it went down. It would be like blaming Trump for all the food stamps that will happen because of Covid, well the exception being some could say Trump's response had something to do with Covid spread, Obama inherited the downturn from Bush (who I do like).

Gas prices are a function of a number of things, Trump is burning through our strategic reserve, I don't plan on being here when its needed so /shrug. Plus I'd like to see more renewable sources.

Blaming Obama for the debt encountered due to the market freefall would be like blaming Trump for the deficit incurred because of Covid (he did cut revenues though).

no beef with Alternative Energy, just want us to be at the front of it not the back of it, gotta beat China on this.

ACA is awesome, Rubio lost me as a supporter (and personal friend) when he introduced the poison pill to **** up the risk corridors. That is what skyrocketed costs. Nevertheless it is the best healthplan we've had and needs to be evolved. Loved it under Romney, Massachussets is still the model. Its a conservative think tanks free market approach and I'm here for it.

20 million gained healthcare.
 
food stamps went down over 5 million under Obama. As the economy recovered it went down. It would be like blaming Trump for all the food stamps that will happen because of Covid, well the exception being some could say Trump's response had something to do with Covid spread, Obama inherited the downturn from Bush (who I do like).

Gas prices are a function of a number of things, Trump is burning through our strategic reserve, I don't plan on being here when its needed so /shrug. Plus I'd like to see more renewable sources.

Blaming Obama for the debt encountered due to the market freefall would be like blaming Trump for the deficit incurred because of Covid (he did cut revenues though).

no beef with Alternative Energy, just want us to be at the front of it not the back of it, gotta beat China on this.

ACA is awesome, Rubio lost me as a supporter (and personal friend) when he introduced the poison pill to **** up the risk corridors. That is what skyrocketed costs. Nevertheless it is the best healthplan we've had and needs to be evolved. Loved it under Romney, Massachussets is still the model. Its a conservative think tanks free market approach and I'm here for it.

20 million gained healthcare.
34 million on food stamps when Obama came in 44 million when he left. Hardly a 5 million person drop. Trump filled strategic reserves but also cut regulations, began building pipelines and opened up markets making the USA a net exporter and leading producer of oil and natural gas. Obama did NOTHING to get us out of the mess in 09 caused largely by lousy legislation by Democrats like Barney Frank that all but forced lenders to soften up lending requirements and provide mortgages to people who really could not afford them. It snow balled from there. The Federal Reserve using voodoo economics got us out of the crash of 08-09 by buying our own debt and holding it . Basically the US Fed bought it's own treasuries.
 
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food stamps went down over 5 million under Obama. As the economy recovered it went down. It would be like blaming Trump for all the food stamps that will happen because of Covid, well the exception being some could say Trump's response had something to do with Covid spread, Obama inherited the downturn from Bush (who I do like).

Gas prices are a function of a number of things, Trump is burning through our strategic reserve, I don't plan on being here when its needed so /shrug. Plus I'd like to see more renewable sources.

Blaming Obama for the debt encountered due to the market freefall would be like blaming Trump for the deficit incurred because of Covid (he did cut revenues though).

no beef with Alternative Energy, just want us to be at the front of it not the back of it, gotta beat China on this.

ACA is awesome, Rubio lost me as a supporter (and personal friend) when he introduced the poison pill to **** up the risk corridors. That is what skyrocketed costs. Nevertheless it is the best healthplan we've had and needs to be evolved. Loved it under Romney, Massachussets is still the model. Its a conservative think tanks free market approach and I'm here for it.

20 million gained healthcare.
Filled to the brim. You may have read wrong.

 
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food stamps went down over 5 million under Obama. As the economy recovered it went down. It would be like blaming Trump for all the food stamps that will happen because of Covid, well the exception being some could say Trump's response had something to do with Covid spread, Obama inherited the downturn from Bush (who I do like).

Gas prices are a function of a number of things, Trump is burning through our strategic reserve, I don't plan on being here when its needed so /shrug. Plus I'd like to see more renewable sources.

Blaming Obama for the debt encountered due to the market freefall would be like blaming Trump for the deficit incurred because of Covid (he did cut revenues though).

no beef with Alternative Energy, just want us to be at the front of it not the back of it, gotta beat China on this.

ACA is awesome, Rubio lost me as a supporter (and personal friend) when he introduced the poison pill to **** up the risk corridors. That is what skyrocketed costs. Nevertheless it is the best healthplan we've had and needs to be evolved. Loved it under Romney, Massachussets is still the model. Its a conservative think tanks free market approach and I'm here for it.

20 million gained healthcare.

“SNAP experienced large but temporary growth during and after the Great Recession. Caseloads expanded significantly between 2007 and 2011 as the recession and lagging economic recovery dramatically increased the number of low-income households that qualified and applied for help. In addition, SNAP delivered more than $40 billion in benefit increases that delivered fast and effective economic stimulus as part of the 2009 Recovery Act.

These changes were temporary, however. SNAP caseloads grew more slowly in 2012 and 2013 and fell by 2 percent in both 2014 and 2015. Caseloads declined more quickly beginning in 2016, when the number of SNAP participants fell 3.4 percent from the year before; it then declined 4.6 percent in 2017 and 4.7 percent in 2018.”
Check the graph lmao
 

“SNAP experienced large but temporary growth during and after the Great Recession. Caseloads expanded significantly between 2007 and 2011 as the recession and lagging economic recovery dramatically increased the number of low-income households that qualified and applied for help. In addition, SNAP delivered more than $40 billion in benefit increases that delivered fast and effective economic stimulus as part of the 2009 Recovery Act.

These changes were temporary, however. SNAP caseloads grew more slowly in 2012 and 2013 and fell by 2 percent in both 2014 and 2015. Caseloads declined more quickly beginning in 2016, when the number of SNAP participants fell 3.4 percent from the year before; it then declined 4.6 percent in 2017 and 4.7 percent in 2018.”
Check the graph lmao
My bad, I said over 5 million, it wasn't. It was
47693 43268.103 4,424.897 (in thousands) from the height after the recession.

Point remains (though I was off 600plus)

HJ read what I wrote, even the article that Canes posted literally spells out what I wrote. And I stand by it. Or you can reduce it to a meaningless talking point but that's an obfuscation not worthy of additional debate. I did perform an inaccurate calculation, that I'll concede.
 
food stamps went down over 5 million under Obama. As the economy recovered it went down. It would be like blaming Trump for all the food stamps that will happen because of Covid, well the exception being some could say Trump's response had something to do with Covid spread, Obama inherited the downturn from Bush (who I do like).

Gas prices are a function of a number of things, Trump is burning through our strategic reserve, I don't plan on being here when its needed so /shrug. Plus I'd like to see more renewable sources.

Blaming Obama for the debt encountered due to the market freefall would be like blaming Trump for the deficit incurred because of Covid (he did cut revenues though).

no beef with Alternative Energy, just want us to be at the front of it not the back of it, gotta beat China on this.

ACA is awesome, Rubio lost me as a supporter (and personal friend) when he introduced the poison pill to **** up the risk corridors. That is what skyrocketed costs. Nevertheless it is the best healthplan we've had and needs to be evolved. Loved it under Romney, Massachussets is still the model. Its a conservative think tanks free market approach and I'm here for it.

20 million gained healthcare.
It’s laughable to think that Biden would have done any better. The guy stayed in his basement, and NEVER proffered a positive statement, speech, facebook or tweet about covid until May.
the ONLY BS that came out of his mouth was calling Trump a Xenophobe for closing immigration from China, then Europe.
Pretty arrogant to look back at a once in a century global pandemic and think you could have done better.
You douchebag libs were too intent trying to IMPEACH Trump, instead of focusing on China Virus.
so funny.
 
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