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Biden Covid plan shows the absolute foolishness

HJCane

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Jun 2, 2007
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Biden's plan for Covid relief most of which has already been done, includes raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour. Why? How does this help anyone?
Economics is the social science that studies how people interact with value; in particular, the production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services. Economics focuses on the behaviour and interactions of economic agents and how economies work . What will be the certain result of this? Small business already hurting will be hurt further. People will either be fired or replaced by automation machines. Work week hours reduced. Prices on goods and services raised. These are FACTS> Big difference in a business in New York City and Little Rock, Arkansas. In addition most states have already begun raising and are in fact above the Federal minimum wage figure.

More pandering and stupidity.
 
Biden's plan for Covid relief most of which has already been done, includes raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour. Why? How does this help anyone?
Economics is the social science that studies how people interact with value; in particular, the production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services. Economics focuses on the behaviour and interactions of economic agents and how economies work . What will be the certain result of this? Small business already hurting will be hurt further. People will either be fired or replaced by automation machines. Work week hours reduced. Prices on goods and services raised. These are FACTS> Big difference in a business in New York City and Little Rock, Arkansas. In addition most states have already begun raising and are in fact above the Federal minimum wage figure.

More pandering and stupidity.

This is actually a very wise and well thought out plan from Biden. First, he actually has a plan. Second, his plan targets all those in need of support from workers to small businesses. The $15 minimum wage is long overdue for obvious reasons and will help people in need to make up for lost money due to a reduction in hours where they work. Biden has to untangle the mess Trump left him on COVID, and this is a great start.
 
This is actually a very wise and well thought out plan from Biden. First, he actually has a plan. Second, his plan targets all those in need of support from workers to small businesses. The $15 minimum wage is long overdue for obvious reasons and will help people in need to make up for lost money due to a reduction in hours where they work. Biden has to untangle the mess Trump left him on COVID, and this is a great start.

So what you are saying Raoul is the people that have been receiving unemployment money that have not had to do a thing since losing their jobs and hear about this $15/hour are really going to want to actually work now? Dems will keep the handouts coming, and I know plenty of peeps that will stick to that plan. Big question is what will happen when the mortgage banks start asking for the deferred payments that Americans have taken that lost their jobs when that scenario goes back into play? I am sure the Biden Administration has another plan too such as printing more $$$ and allowing more deferments.
 
So what you are saying Raoul is the people that have been receiving unemployment money that have not had to do a thing since losing their jobs and hear about this $15/hour are really going to want to actually work now? Dems will keep the handouts coming, and I know plenty of peeps that will stick to that plan. Big question is what will happen when the mortgage banks start asking for the deferred payments that Americans have taken that lost their jobs when that scenario goes back into play? I am sure the Biden Administration has another plan too such as printing more $$$ and allowing more deferments.

No that's not what I'm saying.
 
This is actually a very wise and well thought out plan from Biden. First, he actually has a plan. Second, his plan targets all those in need of support from workers to small businesses. The $15 minimum wage is long overdue for obvious reasons and will help people in need to make up for lost money due to a reduction in hours where they work. Biden has to untangle the mess Trump left him on COVID, and this is a great start.

Hey dumb-ass it shows u never ran a business... Your asking business that have been bleeding due to the virus to pay higher wages..
With what capital diot... Just going to create more unemployment ...
 
Hey dumb-ass it shows u never ran a business... Your asking business that have been bleeding due to the virus to pay higher wages..
With what capital diot... Just going to create more unemployment ...

LMAO
 
An increase in wage when capital for a lot of these small businesses are gone will lead to even more business closures. I know a bunch of owners of successful businesses who have pretty much exhausted their personal savings keeping their businesses afloat, have not taken a salary in 9 months and are on the verge of closing to avoid bankruptcy. This will undoubtedly make that decision easier. Big business will cull their workforce in favor of more temp/gig employees. Easier to pay 15 an hour when you don’t have benefits or other costs to worry about. Automation will decrease the need for service workers as well. The massive spike in unemployment will lead to increase demand for social services. But with business closures snd mortgage defaults property tax revenue will drop massively.

Eventually the dollar is gonna pop from the massive debt of the last 20 years and inflation will go through the roof. And nobody is talking about the coming housing/foreclosure crisis on the horizon for millions who have been out of work for 10+ months.

The reaction will be to call for massive tax increases on income, capital gains, etc. this will lead to hundreds of billions coming out of the markets and investors will hedge in metals and crypto. The massive market drop, coming on the heels of a stagnating economy with consistent 15-18% unemployment and 5X homelessness rates will finish off the pension shortfalls in many states leaving tens of millions of retirees without a primary income source.

Or nothing will happen
 
This is actually a very wise and well thought out plan from Biden. First, he actually has a plan. Second, his plan targets all those in need of support from workers to small businesses. The $15 minimum wage is long overdue for obvious reasons and will help people in need to make up for lost money due to a reduction in hours where they work. Biden has to untangle the mess Trump left him on COVID, and this is a great start.
You need an education on economics and a one size fits all min wage. Plenty of research out there that discusses slim margin businesses and their only viable option to cut employees to offset the wage increase. Unemployment often goes up in those areas where cost of living is lower. It is a shame some of you are so naive.
 
This is actually a very wise and well thought out plan from Biden. First, he actually has a plan. Second, his plan targets all those in need of support from workers to small businesses. The $15 minimum wage is long overdue for obvious reasons and will help people in need to make up for lost money due to a reduction in hours where they work. Biden has to untangle the mess Trump left him on COVID, and this is a great start.
Raoul you might be a nice guy but you are dumber then a bag of rocks. If Biden says it's great to suck a Richard you will proclaim it's well thought out.
 
What are you laughing at? It's not just the hourly wage it's the burden on top of it like 7.6% Social security employer portion.

States already have plans in place which Biden damn well knows.
 
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You need an education on economics and a one size fits all min wage. Plenty of research out there that discusses slim margin businesses and their only viable option to cut employees to offset the wage increase. Unemployment often goes up in those areas where cost of living is lower. It is a shame some of you are so naive.

"Plenty of research out there". LOL.

Here's some actual research by the Economic Policy Institute that debunks all the usual tropes like "increasing the minimum wage will lead to job cuts" or "increasing the minimum wage will lead to inflation"


Gradually raising the minimum wage to $15 would be good for workers, good for businesses, and good for the economy


Key Findings:
  • A national $15 minimum wage by 2024 is an important corrective to ensure that low-wage workers share the benefits of economic growth.

  • The bulk of recent economic research on the minimum wage, as well as the best scholarship, establishes that prior increases have had little to no negative consequences and instead have meaningfully raised the pay of the low-wage workforce.

  • Minimum wage workers, and low-wage workers generally, are mostly adults and are also disproportionately women and people of color.

  • Workers in every region of the country will soon need $15 per hour to maintain a modest but adequate standard of living.

Economic research justifies bold minimum wage increases

While much of this research concentrates on the effects of the average or typical minimum wage increase in the United States, current research also suggests that even higher minimum wages have helped raise wages without reductions in employment. Doruk Cengiz, Arindrajit Dube, Attila Lindner, and I studied all major state-level minimum wage increases between 1979 and 2016 and found they significantly raised wages without reducing the employment of low-wage workers. Notably, we also found the same positive outcomes for even the highest minimum wages in our study. Separately, important new scholarship by Ellora Derenoncourt and Claire Montialoux found that the highest minimum wages the United States has ever experienced—the minimum wages of the late 1960s—significantly raised wages without reducing the employment of low-wage workers.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In summary:
Raising the minimum wage would improve the quality of life for millions of Americans while having little to no effect on job losses.
 
M
"Plenty of research out there". LOL.

Here's some actual research by the Economic Policy Institute that debunks all the usual tropes like "increasing the minimum wage will lead to job cuts" or "increasing the minimum wage will lead to inflation"


Gradually raising the minimum wage to $15 would be good for workers, good for businesses, and good for the economy


Key Findings:
  • A national $15 minimum wage by 2024 is an important corrective to ensure that low-wage workers share the benefits of economic growth.

  • The bulk of recent economic research on the minimum wage, as well as the best scholarship, establishes that prior increases have had little to no negative consequences and instead have meaningfully raised the pay of the low-wage workforce.

  • Minimum wage workers, and low-wage workers generally, are mostly adults and are also disproportionately women and people of color.

  • Workers in every region of the country will soon need $15 per hour to maintain a modest but adequate standard of living.

Economic research justifies bold minimum wage increases

While much of this research concentrates on the effects of the average or typical minimum wage increase in the United States, current research also suggests that even higher minimum wages have helped raise wages without reductions in employment. Doruk Cengiz, Arindrajit Dube, Attila Lindner, and I studied all major state-level minimum wage increases between 1979 and 2016 and found they significantly raised wages without reducing the employment of low-wage workers. Notably, we also found the same positive outcomes for even the highest minimum wages in our study. Separately, important new scholarship by Ellora Derenoncourt and Claire Montialoux found that the highest minimum wages the United States has ever experienced—the minimum wages of the late 1960s—significantly raised wages without reducing the employment of low-wage workers.
That has nothing to do with what I said. Try again
 
"Plenty of research out there". LOL.

Here's some actual research by the Economic Policy Institute that debunks all the usual tropes like "increasing the minimum wage will lead to job cuts" or "increasing the minimum wage will lead to inflation"


Gradually raising the minimum wage to $15 would be good for workers, good for businesses, and good for the economy


Key Findings:
  • A national $15 minimum wage by 2024 is an important corrective to ensure that low-wage workers share the benefits of economic growth.

  • The bulk of recent economic research on the minimum wage, as well as the best scholarship, establishes that prior increases have had little to no negative consequences and instead have meaningfully raised the pay of the low-wage workforce.

  • Minimum wage workers, and low-wage workers generally, are mostly adults and are also disproportionately women and people of color.

  • Workers in every region of the country will soon need $15 per hour to maintain a modest but adequate standard of living.

Economic research justifies bold minimum wage increases

While much of this research concentrates on the effects of the average or typical minimum wage increase in the United States, current research also suggests that even higher minimum wages have helped raise wages without reductions in employment. Doruk Cengiz, Arindrajit Dube, Attila Lindner, and I studied all major state-level minimum wage increases between 1979 and 2016 and found they significantly raised wages without reducing the employment of low-wage workers. Notably, we also found the same positive outcomes for even the highest minimum wages in our study. Separately, important new scholarship by Ellora Derenoncourt and Claire Montialoux found that the highest minimum wages the United States has ever experienced—the minimum wages of the late 1960s—significantly raised wages without reducing the employment of low-wage workers.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In summary:
Raising the minimum wage would improve the quality of life for millions of Americans while having little to no effect on job losses.
Raoul it's ALREADY happening at the State level. Our businesses are suffering from prolonged lockdowns. This is NOT when you mandate they pay more. It's common sense genius.
 
Raoul it's ALREADY happening at the State level. Our businesses are suffering from prolonged lockdowns. This is NOT when you mandate they pay more. It's common sense genius.
He clearly didn’t get the one size fits all aspect. Brainwashed sheep think what’s good for NY is good for Alabama.
 
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Raoul it's ALREADY happening at the State level. Our businesses are suffering from prolonged lockdowns. This is NOT when you mandate they pay more. It's common sense genius.

Some states have it, others don't. That's why it needs to happen at a national level. As the research I posted above indicates.."Workers in every region of the country will soon need $15 per hour to maintain a modest but adequate standard of living". That means it can't happen in piecemeal, it has to happen uniformly at the national level.
 
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Some states have it, others don't. That's why it needs to happen at a national level. As the research I posted above indicates.."Workers in every region of the country will soon need $15 per hour to maintain a modest but adequate standard of living". That means it can't happen in piecemeal, it has to happen uniformly at the national level.
No, not all states are at the same cost of living. Stick with fakenews and disinformation, things you are good at, not economics. Someone in south beach Miami shouldn’t be making the same a someone in. Valrico Fl for the same job.
 
No, not all states are at the same cost of living. Stick with fakenews and disinformation, things you are good at, not economics.

You talked a big game earlier in the thread but couldn't seem to find any of your vaunted "plenty of research out there". Try scrounging it up and lets see what you have. If you can't then please remain silent since you obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about and are disingenuous on top of it.
 
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An increase in wage when capital for a lot of these small businesses are gone will lead to even more business closures. I know a bunch of owners of successful businesses who have pretty much exhausted their personal savings keeping their businesses afloat, have not taken a salary in 9 months and are on the verge of closing to avoid bankruptcy. This will undoubtedly make that decision easier. Big business will cull their workforce in favor of more temp/gig employees. Easier to pay 15 an hour when you don’t have benefits or other costs to worry about. Automation will decrease the need for service workers as well. The massive spike in unemployment will lead to increase demand for social services. But with business closures snd mortgage defaults property tax revenue will drop massively.

Eventually the dollar is gonna pop from the massive debt of the last 20 years and inflation will go through the roof. And nobody is talking about the coming housing/foreclosure crisis on the horizon for millions who have been out of work for 10+ months.

The reaction will be to call for massive tax increases on income, capital gains, etc. this will lead to hundreds of billions coming out of the markets and investors will hedge in metals and crypto. The massive market drop, coming on the heels of a stagnating economy with consistent 15-18% unemployment and 5X homelessness rates will finish off the pension shortfalls in many states leaving tens of millions of retirees without a primary income source.

Or nothing will happen
Most fiscally irresponsible thing we’ve done in decades was that dumb ass tax cut that made Amazon Google Tesla and Microsoft owners rich AF. Just dumb

bring back the tax rates the great General Dwight D Eisenhower had and tax rich family estates. ****ing trust fund babies can afford it. No reason Kim Kardashian and Beyoncé kids can’t make their way on the millions they’ll get after taxes.
 
"Plenty of research out there". LOL.

Here's some actual research by the Economic Policy Institute that debunks all the usual tropes like "increasing the minimum wage will lead to job cuts" or "increasing the minimum wage will lead to inflation"


Gradually raising the minimum wage to $15 would be good for workers, good for businesses, and good for the economy


Key Findings:
  • A national $15 minimum wage by 2024 is an important corrective to ensure that low-wage workers share the benefits of economic growth.

  • The bulk of recent economic research on the minimum wage, as well as the best scholarship, establishes that prior increases have had little to no negative consequences and instead have meaningfully raised the pay of the low-wage workforce.

  • Minimum wage workers, and low-wage workers generally, are mostly adults and are also disproportionately women and people of color.

  • Workers in every region of the country will soon need $15 per hour to maintain a modest but adequate standard of living.

Economic research justifies bold minimum wage increases

While much of this research concentrates on the effects of the average or typical minimum wage increase in the United States, current research also suggests that even higher minimum wages have helped raise wages without reductions in employment. Doruk Cengiz, Arindrajit Dube, Attila Lindner, and I studied all major state-level minimum wage increases between 1979 and 2016 and found they significantly raised wages without reducing the employment of low-wage workers. Notably, we also found the same positive outcomes for even the highest minimum wages in our study. Separately, important new scholarship by Ellora Derenoncourt and Claire Montialoux found that the highest minimum wages the United States has ever experienced—the minimum wages of the late 1960s—significantly raised wages without reducing the employment of low-wage workers.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In summary:
Raising the minimum wage would improve the quality of life for millions of Americans while having little to no effect on job losses.
I see you clearly do not own a small business and have laid of key employees in the last 6-8 months.
 
You talked a big game earlier in the thread but couldn't seem to find any of your vaunted "plenty of research out there". Try scrounging it up and lets see what you have. If you can't then please remain silent since you obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about and are disingenuous on top of it.
There is plenty of research out there, but you choose to look away. You are clueless. Let’s repeat, in areas where there is a lower cost of living, a higher fed min wage will create higher unemployment, lowering income levels on average. If you had 3 people at $11/hr, and raise them to $15, bit one loses their job, now their effectively lower on average to $10 between the 3 of them, plus you have a +1 unemployment. Simple math. Here is a study and tool to help you get woke:

 
The link you provided just listed the states that have already done. Some others may do it, while others may not.
And that's the States right but as more States do it pressure will mount for the others. Point is that it is disingenuous to keep saying minimum wage is stuck. Fact is it is and has been on the rise with most states already higher then the Federal standard.
 
Some states have it, others don't. That's why it needs to happen at a national level. As the research I posted above indicates.."Workers in every region of the country will soon need $15 per hour to maintain a modest but adequate standard of living". That means it can't happen in piecemeal, it has to happen uniformly at the national level.
Currently, 29 states and D.C. have minimum wages above the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. Five states have not adopted a state minimum wage: Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and Tennessee. Two states, Georgia and Wyoming, have a minimum wage below $7.25 per hour.
 
Currently, 29 states and D.C. have minimum wages above the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. Five states have not adopted a state minimum wage: Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and Tennessee. Two states, Georgia and Wyoming, have a minimum wage below $7.25 per hour.

All of which is disgraceful given that you can't live on $7.25 or even $12 in today's economy. Housing costs have soared in recent years but wages have barely budged.
 
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All of which is disgraceful given that you can't live on 7.25 or even $12 in today's economy. Housing costs have soared in recent years but wages have barely budged.
The topic is not whether a person or family can live on minimum wage Raoul. The topic is whether an immediate jump to $15 per hour mandated is smart and right at this time and the effect that would have particularly on already crushed small business. Minimum wage was NEVER intended to be paid to people so they can buy a home, car, or raise a family. It was always for entry level workers, first job workers, youth entering the work force for the 1st time etc. If u are looking for a wage that would allow for all that you would need a lot more then $15 per hour.

The living wage in the United States is $16.54 per hour, or $68,808 per year, in 2019, before taxes for a family of four (two working adults, two children), compared to $16.14 in 2018. The minimum wage does not provide a living wage for most American families.Mar 3, 2020
 
The topic is not whether a person or family can live on minimum wage Raoul. The topic is whether an immediate jump to $15 per hour mandated is smart and right at this time and the effect that would have particularly on already crushed small business. Minimum wage was NEVER intended to be paid to people so they can buy a home, car, or raise a family. It was always for entry level workers, first job workers, youth entering the work force for the 1st time etc. If u are looking for a wage that would allow for all that you would need a lot more then $15 per hour.

The living wage in the United States is $16.54 per hour, or $68,808 per year, in 2019, before taxes for a family of four (two working adults, two children), compared to $16.14 in 2018. The minimum wage does not provide a living wage for most American families.Mar 3, 2020

The purpose of the minimum wage is to create a minimum standard of living for workers - which of course $7.25 doesn't even come close to achieving, and it would be an insult to working people to suggest otherwise. Its a device to bring people out of poverty and allow them to live decent, dignified lives. The old stereotype that only teenagers and college age students are on minimum wages is also wrong, since most people are working age adults with families and bills to pay. Therefore allowing states to continue predatory behavior by allowing criminally low wages is completely unsustainable.
 
And that's the States right but as more States do it pressure will mount for the others. Point is that it is disingenuous to keep saying minimum wage is stuck. Fact is it is and has been on the rise with most states already higher then the Federal standard.
This is what sheep don’t get
 
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The purpose of the minimum wage is to create a minimum standard of living for workers - which of course $7.25 doesn't even come close to achieving, and it would be an insult to working people to suggest otherwise. Its a device to bring people out of poverty and allow them to live decent, dignified lives. The old stereotype that only teenagers and college age students are on minimum wages is also wrong, since most people are working age adults with families and bills to pay. Therefore allowing states to continue predatory behavior by allowing criminally low wages is completely unsustainable.
Dude I just showed you that 29 STATES are already above the Federal wage and most are on a path to even higher hourly wages raising the wage each year. Y I debate with you is a waste of time you parrot.
 
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The purpose of the minimum wage is to create a minimum standard of living for workers - which of course $7.25 doesn't even come close to achieving, and it would be an insult to working people to suggest otherwise. Its a device to bring people out of poverty and allow them to live decent, dignified lives. The old stereotype that only teenagers and college age students are on minimum wages is also wrong, since most people are working age adults with families and bills to pay. Therefore allowing states to continue predatory behavior by allowing criminally low wages is completely unsustainable.
The cost of living in each state is different. For every 1 million people who move above the poverty line with a higher minimum wage, 1.5 million go unemployed. You’re just not getting simple economics.

We are republic of states. You gotta educate yourself son.
 
This is what sheep don’t get
Honestly it's like arguing with a door with these idiots. Anyone who thinks minimum wage was meant for people to buy a home, buy a car, put kids thru college, is just a moron.
 
The purpose of the minimum wage is to create a minimum standard of living for workers - which of course $7.25 doesn't even come close to achieving, and it would be an insult to working people to suggest otherwise. Its a device to bring people out of poverty and allow them to live decent, dignified lives. The old stereotype that only teenagers and college age students are on minimum wages is also wrong, since most people are working age adults with families and bills to pay. Therefore allowing states to continue predatory behavior by allowing criminally low wages is completely unsustainable.
On November 3, 2020, over 60 percent of Floridian voters approved Amendment 2, which increases the minimum wage and amends Florida's Constitution. Under the new mandate, Florida's minimum wage rate (currently, $8.56) will increase to $10 an hour in September 2021.N
 
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Honestly it's like arguing with a door with these idiots. Anyone who thinks minimum wage was meant for people to buy a home, buy a car, put kids thru college, is just a moron.
Absolutely. If Raoul wants to flip burgers the rest of his life and not better himself, more power to him, but he better move to NY or Cali to get that $15/hr to flip those burgers then. He best believe Cuomo and Newsome will get it back in taxes and regulations.
 
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The purpose of the minimum wage is to create a minimum standard of living for workers - which of course $7.25 doesn't even come close to achieving, and it would be an insult to working people to suggest otherwise. Its a device to bring people out of poverty and allow them to live decent, dignified lives. The old stereotype that only teenagers and college age students are on minimum wages is also wrong, since most people are working age adults with families and bills to pay. Therefore allowing states to continue predatory behavior by allowing criminally low wages is completely unsustainable.
s Texas minimum wage going up in 2020?
Proposition 206 was passed in 2016 and mandates that the state minimum wage be increased to $12.00 in 2020. The minimum wage for tipped employees is $9.Jun 22, 2020
 
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s Texas minimum wage going up in 2020?
Proposition 206 was passed in 2016 and mandates that the state minimum wage be increased to $12.00 in 2020. The minimum wage for tipped employees is $9.Jun 22, 2020
Yep. We are republic of states. Not all states want to live a slow death like NY and Cali
 
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2 biggest Republican states. Perhaps Raoul should focus on the Democrat run states with large income taxes. Maybe if those states were managed better the hourly wage might not matter as much.
 
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2 biggest Republican states. Perhaps Raoul should focus on the Democrat run states with large income taxes. Maybe if those states were managed better the hourly wage might not matter as much.

Given that we live in one country, its wiser to focus all states at the same time.
 
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