Cleveland
- Thread starter ellu
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It's typical of Socialists or Communists to attempt to erase ones history for their benefit. The indians were the true nationally born first Americans. It is their attempt to change our history.
I just don't understand why it's derogatory versus say the Redskins. FSU Seminoles is named after an actual Florida based Indian Tribe and the Seminoles have said repeatedly they like FSU's name. They are more then ok with it. Maybe with Cleveland their logo of an Indian could be considered derogatory but I don't know. ??
Its more stupid shit from the lefts Cancel Culture...
Like there wasn’t any Indians .. hahaha fresking morons..
You know, you just don't agree. Be intellectually honest in your approach. If you truly don't know a google search can give you information. If that fails, the Cleveland baseball team put out an explanatory statement. It is not the lack of knowledge you feign, it's your lack of agreement with the thought process. Why false frame it?
If you are unaware of the Seminoles then perhaps you should see where the majority of Seminoles live. Also, how many mistruths are promulgated by that grotesquely racist display in redface at the beginning of games, or that the "war chant" bullshit or that the song they play during drives and is literally called "Massacre".
Could you imagine a person in black face riding a zebra into a stadium and chucking a spear? I don't care how much you mythologized the look or how many Diamond and Silk, Candace Owens approved of the crowd chanting oonga boonga we'd all call it what it was.
So, if you aren't offended just say I'm not offended. Don't say you don't know why others are, or if you're going to say that finish the sentence, I'm not sure why others are offended and I don't want to find out. A simple google search would provide you all the answers you could want.
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Where does “ Fighting Irish “ come in to this ? We don’t say “ Drunken Indians “ just Indians. I see an awful lot of people of Irish decent who are not alumni wearing it all the time. The logo has Leprechaun in a fighting stance.
Louis Sockalexis was a baseball player for Cleveland. The team adopted the nickname “Indians” to honor this player. This is just ridiculous. When is it going to end?
Can’t make this sh*t up, Louis was a drunken Indian got thrown out of ND because of his drunkenness. Some attribute his“ Indian Problem “ to his short career. As for when it will end who knows it looks infinite. Let’s make some other suggestions. Georgia has the bulldog which is strong, fearless and somewhat aggressive. Majority of players black / suggested change / Black Labs. Penn Quakers could move to community activists., USC Trojans/ Gullible’s. It’s endless
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It won't end until the snowflakes realize that there are more important issues to tackle than names and caricatures of our Native American Indians. It is a common theme for Socialists and Communists to upset and change and in some cases ,wipeout prior history ,if it works to their favor. I do not believe the op's intent is that however it is something to be aware of.
When a handful of people find something offensive then we should stop doing what offends them. When millions are offended by kneeling to our flag and anthem, they are told to shut up and accept it. Go figure.
Remember the world outrage when the Taliban ( Sunni ) blew up the 6th century Buddha’s statues. That was 2001 look how fast we follow in their footsteps.
The Browns are changing their name?? Yes about time those Racist. The nerve of them naming their team after Brown People. Friggin Racist!!
For one, I've not seen anyone take that name as offensive, more to the point, the name, the mascot, and the customs around it are all derived from the people who are characterized (caricatured?) by it.
But that would be an honest evaluation not a whataboutism based on a single exception dearth of historical context.
In fact, a modicum of diligence satisfies the question.
Google "fighting irish nickname origin"
The first result is from the Notre Dame website.
They point out that it's greatly anecdotal, some ascribing it to the fact that the Irish fought with the Union to defeat the Confederate traitors who were hell built on destroying this great country. That alone is a reason to celebrate fighting Irish if you ask me.
Others say its because four of the six religious who founded Notre Dame in 1842 with French priest Edward Sorin were Irish; that nearly all of Fr. Sorin’s successors claim Irish descent; and that the student body has always had a strong Irish presence. While personally, that doesn't make the difference, I do think it adds clarity as, and pardon me if I'm wrong I'm not looking it up, 2/3 of the founders of FSU or owners of the Cleveland baseball franchise are not Native Americans or specifically Seminole of Florida tribesman, but hey, I concede I didn't research that and will give a tip of the hat if it's correct, especially if by corollary a large presence of Florida Seminoles were historically part of the student body when the term became part of the usage.
Others say it was reclamation. Think Queer, a once derisive phrase taken back by the community and leveraged into not only a term of pride but one that they used as a positive for themselves. Is that example confusing? how about a more recent reclamation, "Deplorables". If a group of MAGA formed a team and named themselves deplorables no one would have a credible claim against the reclamation. The key issue here is "who" chose the designation. Whether its assented to by a few in an affected class has little bearing if the power structure that chose it did not reflect those denigrated by it.
I think you know this however, I think you were being obtuse.
Its my opinion that you are all brighter than you are presenting it.
State your case for not caring or not wanting to care, but stop with the false vanity of faux discussion. Add something of depth because these thinly veiled "arguments" are boring.
Actually carry on, this thread is done. Deuces.
Is it a thinly veiled argument to ask why some are okay to ban things when a handful of people are offended over something, but yet seem to celebrate offending millions of Americans over the flag and anthem issue? How exactly is that different to you? Is it okay for some to be offended but not others?For one, I've not seen anyone take that name as offensive, more to the point, the name, the mascot, and the customs around it are all derived from the people who are characterized (caricatured?) by it.
But that would be an honest evaluation not a whataboutism based on a single exception dearth of historical context.
In fact, a modicum of diligence satisfies the question.
Google "fighting irish nickname origin"
The first result is from the Notre Dame website.
.
They point out that it's greatly anecdotal, some ascribing it to the fact that the Irish fought with the Union to defeat the Confederate traitors who were hell built on destroying this great country. That alone is a reason to celebrate fighting Irish if you ask me.
Others say its because four of the six religious who founded Notre Dame in 1842 with French priest Edward Sorin were Irish; that nearly all of Fr. Sorin’s successors claim Irish descent; and that the student body has always had a strong Irish presence. While personally, that doesn't make the difference, I do think it adds clarity as, and pardon me if I'm wrong I'm not looking it up, 2/3 of the founders of FSU or owners of the Cleveland baseball franchise are not Native Americans or specifically Seminole of Florida tribesman, but hey, I concede I didn't research that and will give a tip of the hat if it's correct, especially if by corollary a large presence of Florida Seminoles were historically part of the student body when the term became part of the usage.
Others say it was reclamation. Think Queer, a once derisive phrase taken back by the community and leveraged into not only a term of pride but one that they used as a positive for themselves. Is that example confusing? how about a more recent reclamation, "Deplorables". If a group of MAGA formed a team and named themselves deplorables no one would have a credible claim against the reclamation. The key issue here is "who" chose the designation. Whether its assented to by a few in an affected class has little bearing if the power structure that chose it did not reflect those denigrated by it.
I think you know this however, I think you were being obtuse.
Its my opinion that you are all brighter than you are presenting it.
State your case for not caring or not wanting to care, but stop with the false vanity of faux discussion. Add something of depth because these thinly veiled "arguments" are boring.
Actually carry on, this thread is done. Deuces.
For one, I've not seen anyone take that name as offensive, more to the point, the name, the mascot, and the customs around it are all derived from the people who are characterized (caricatured?) by it.
But that would be an honest evaluation not a whataboutism based on a single exception dearth of historical context.
In fact, a modicum of diligence satisfies the question.
Google "fighting irish nickname origin"
The first result is from the Notre Dame website.
.
T hey point out that it's greatly anecdotal, some ascribing it to the fact that the Irish fought with the Union to defeat the Confederate traitors who were hell built on destroying this great country. That alone is a reason to celebrate fighting Irish if you ask me.
Others say its because four of the six religious who founded Notre Dame in 1842 with French priest Edward Sorin were Irish; that nearly all of Fr. Sorin’s successors claim Irish descent; and that the student body has always had a strong Irish presence. While personally, that doesn't make the difference, I do think it adds clarity as, and pardon me if I'm wrong I'm not looking it up, 2/3 of the founders of FSU or owners of the Cleveland baseball franchise are not Native Americans or specifically Seminole of Florida tribesman, but hey, I concede I didn't research that and will give a tip of the hat if it's correct, especially if by corollary a large presence of Florida Seminoles were historically part of the student body when the term became part of the usage.
Others say it was reclamation. Think Queer, a once derisive phrase taken back by the community and leveraged into not only a term of pride but one that they used as a positive for themselves. Is that example confusing? how about a more recent reclamation, "Deplorables". If a group of MAGA formed a team and named themselves deplorables no one would have a credible claim against the reclamation. The key issue here is "who" chose the designation. Whether its assented to by a few in an affected class has little bearing if the power structure that chose it did not reflect those denigrated by it.
I think you know this however, I think you were being obtuse.
Its my opinion that you are all brighter than you are presenting it.
State your case for not caring or not wanting to care, but stop with the false vanity of faux discussion. Add something of depth because these thinly veiled "arguments" are boring.
Actually carry on, this thread is done. Deuces.
Sorry just another poster that bores your superior intelligence. Now let’s look at some of the statements in your reply. You say the fact that the Irish fought with the Union in the Civil war is reason to celebrate the name. There were Irish draft riots in NYC and Detroit when they realized becoming a citizen made them eligible for a draft that Blacks ( mostly freed slaves ) were exempt from. Tennessee also had a confederate Irish brigade 20k strong. Using the argument 2/3 of founders were Irish is laughable. Wouldn’t They have named it in their native Gaelic language rather than French. My case for not caring is simple. People tell me I’m Irish due to my ancestry. My reply is always the same, “ Somebody sure screwed up because these guys sent Me a draft notice. As for who choose the name it was chosen by College President. I know there was an outcry about FSU The Seminoles do not just give a stamp of approval from afar — they are full participants in the activities of the university. Their leaders have publicly stated that they feel the FSU family is part of their family.
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You forgot to include the dolphins. How dare you people named a football team after such a beautiful creature.
Mungo, well presented and said. I, as another retired working class guy can see how Ali is above my ability to understand. Crazy part I have a brother who all the sudden thinks because of his multiple degrees he can talk down to me. His big claim is I deal in facts, the minute I prove his facts wrong, He dismisses me and changes the subject.
It's a bunch of confused phony sudo elitist mumbo jumbo. Some people are looking to still find a direction later in life. Some will succeed some won't. It is easier if they don't hide their true beliefs behind disguised ramblings.
No I don't know so I can't possibly agree. Did Native American Tribes complain about the name Cleveland Indians? I wrote very specifically that the logo might be considered derogatory but I don't know about the name. It is certainly less offensive then Redskins although Redskins are very good potatoes. As for FSU it is widely known that the Seminole Tribe likes the use of their name and the mascot as well. In fact FSU does many ventures and educational efforts around the Seminole tribe. Unless Native American Indians find the Cleveland name offensive who am I or you to render an opinion as neither of us is an Indian. (guessing)
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