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Covid might kill you but there are a lot of things far more dangerous.

kamco360

SuperCane
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Feb 27, 2018
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Stanford epidemiologist Dr. John Ioannidis recently ran a great article where he compared the amount of years of life have been lost by Covid and compared this to the 1918 Spanish flu. His purpose in this was to demonstrate the overreaction to poor data and the hysteria this has caused. The premise of the article is rather than looking at raw death count (even tough 1918 flu had 3 times as many dead when US population was only 120M vs 330M today) he took a look into the expected years of life lost. This did not look so good for the Covid lockdowns since the avg age at death for Covid is 78 vs avg age of death for 1918 flu was 28, yikes! If you do the math on Covid deaths (125,000) x 2.5 (avg life span in US is 80.5) you get 312,500 lost life years. Seems like a ton to me, but lets try 1918 flu where almost no lockdowns where implemented. 1918 Flu deaths 450,000 x 30 (avg life span in US in 1918 was 58) and you get 13,500,000. Holy Horse F#ck Batman!! By my math that is 43x the life expectancy lost in that pandemic than the current one, my guess would have to be the strong leadership by a Democrat President.

Since I had the free time this afternoon I hopped on the CDC and US census bureau website and wanted to compare how Covid stacks up to things we do for fun in the US everyday. I wanted to compare this to Covid by assuming no vaccine is found and we have 300,000 deaths before reaching herd immunity (This would be 750,000 years of lost life expectancy). All I can say is hold on to your butts.

1. Opiod OD- Otherwise known as West Virginia's favorite past time.
10 year avg deaths- 61,000/ Avg age of deaths 31/ 3,080,500 yr 30,805,000 life exp years in a decade.
Drs. start you scrip books, 4x more deadly in a year than Covid could ever be.
2. Driving- AKA that deadly hunk of metal in your driveway waiting to take you to an early grave
10 yr avg death- 42,000/ Avg age- 42/ 1,617,000 yr 16,170,000 decade
Better get your car to the scrap yard quick, if it doesn't kill you along the way, because yearly this is twice the carnage Covid could ever hope to do.
3. Suicide- TDS got you down
10 yr avg death 45,000/ Avg age 28/ 2,362,500 yr 23,625,000 decade
Put away those sleeping pills, drain that hot bath and pull that shot gun out of your mouth, suicide is 3 times worse than Covid is on its best day.
4. Swimming pools- Who knew the grim reaper was amphibious
10 yr avg death 3600/ Avg age 18/ 225,000 per year 2,250,000 decade
Quick lock up the kids and walk over to Sunbelt (assuming you managed to survive taking your car to the scrap yard) and get that bulldozer because your aquatic death trap must be filled in post haste. Over a decade this is 3 times as deadly as the Rona will ever dream of reaching.
5. Shooting people for no reason- AKA Chicago's favorite past time
10 yr avg death 18,600/ Avg age- 24/ 1,050,900 yr 10,509,000 decade
This race might be too close to call. But wait... whats that Defund the Police blocks Covid and its Shooting People For No Reason in a landslide.

This is actually sad stuff because it's all avoidable, but the point is this is s#it that we don't even think about. Perhaps the politicians and Covid Karens should consider data and think long and hard before making decisions that put 30M people out of work and destroy hundreds of thousands of business. Elderly people dying is sad by all means, but everyone on the planet is going to die some day. Unnecessarily stunting and destroying the futures of millions of Americans is an absolute tragedy and can be stopped with the stroke of a pen. We didn't shut down in 1918 because we had WW1 to win and an economic powerhouse to build, perhaps we should take from our ancestors and get on with life.
 
Stanford epidemiologist Dr. John Ioannidis recently ran a great article where he compared the amount of years of life have been lost by Covid and compared this to the 1918 Spanish flu. His purpose in this was to demonstrate the overreaction to poor data and the hysteria this has caused. The premise of the article is rather than looking at raw death count (even tough 1918 flu had 3 times as many dead when US population was only 120M vs 330M today) he took a look into the expected years of life lost. This did not look so good for the Covid lockdowns since the avg age at death for Covid is 78 vs avg age of death for 1918 flu was 28, yikes! If you do the math on Covid deaths (125,000) x 2.5 (avg life span in US is 80.5) you get 312,500 lost life years. Seems like a ton to me, but lets try 1918 flu where almost no lockdowns where implemented. 1918 Flu deaths 450,000 x 30 (avg life span in US in 1918 was 58) and you get 13,500,000. Holy Horse F#ck Batman!! By my math that is 43x the life expectancy lost in that pandemic than the current one, my guess would have to be the strong leadership by a Democrat President.

Since I had the free time this afternoon I hopped on the CDC and US census bureau website and wanted to compare how Covid stacks up to things we do for fun in the US everyday. I wanted to compare this to Covid by assuming no vaccine is found and we have 300,000 deaths before reaching herd immunity (This would be 750,000 years of lost life expectancy). All I can say is hold on to your butts.

1. Opiod OD- Otherwise known as West Virginia's favorite past time.
10 year avg deaths- 61,000/ Avg age of deaths 31/ 3,080,500 yr 30,805,000 life exp years in a decade.
Drs. start you scrip books, 4x more deadly in a year than Covid could ever be.
2. Driving- AKA that deadly hunk of metal in your driveway waiting to take you to an early grave
10 yr avg death- 42,000/ Avg age- 42/ 1,617,000 yr 16,170,000 decade
Better get your car to the scrap yard quick, if it doesn't kill you along the way, because yearly this is twice the carnage Covid could ever hope to do.
3. Suicide- TDS got you down
10 yr avg death 45,000/ Avg age 28/ 2,362,500 yr 23,625,000 decade
Put away those sleeping pills, drain that hot bath and pull that shot gun out of your mouth, suicide is 3 times worse than Covid is on its best day.
4. Swimming pools- Who knew the grim reaper was amphibious
10 yr avg death 3600/ Avg age 18/ 225,000 per year 2,250,000 decade
Quick lock up the kids and walk over to Sunbelt (assuming you managed to survive taking your car to the scrap yard) and get that bulldozer because your aquatic death trap must be filled in post haste. Over a decade this is 3 times as deadly as the Rona will ever dream of reaching.
5. Shooting people for no reason- AKA Chicago's favorite past time
10 yr avg death 18,600/ Avg age- 24/ 1,050,900 yr 10,509,000 decade
This race might be too close to call. But wait... whats that Defund the Police blocks Covid and its Shooting People For No Reason in a landslide.

This is actually sad stuff because it's all avoidable, but the point is this is s#it that we don't even think about. Perhaps the politicians and Covid Karens should consider data and think long and hard before making decisions that put 30M people out of work and destroy hundreds of thousands of business. Elderly people dying is sad by all means, but everyone on the planet is going to die some day. Unnecessarily stunting and destroying the futures of millions of Americans is an absolute tragedy and can be stopped with the stroke of a pen. We didn't shut down in 1918 because we had WW1 to win and an economic powerhouse to build, perhaps we should take from our ancestors and get on with life.
Perspective! Is a shame the mindless sheep buy into media hysteria.
 
Most people aren’t worried for themselves. How many of those other things can kill someone else that came from you and you had no idea you had it. Quite a few people say the same stuff over and over. The flu can kill you pneumonia can kill you, all true and no one denies that. But you also know when you have pneumonia and the flu and you stay away from people, especially the elderly in your family. You are not out at bars and the grocery store when you have those things. You are not at work near coworkers spreading that around the office. You are home getting better and nowhere near the elderly in your family. Those are all facts. You guys love the sheep talk it’s bs. Asymptomatic spread is conveniently left out by most posters Because it doesn’t fit their narrative.


Sadly a car wreck, suicide, pools and shootings only kill a few people or in massacres a hundred and once it happens it’s done. I get your point but some on this board are also missing perspective the other way.

If wearing a mask when around people in a grocery store or a business keeps the govt from over reaching then I’m glad to do it. Business have the right to ask you to wear a mask or just don’t go there. It is no different than no shoes no shirt no service which no one has a problem with. Elderly have every right to go to a grocery store to live, They are Americans too. If it Saves us a trillion dollars (no ridiculous 2nd shut down) and helps slow down (not stop) the spread I don’t see the big deal in wearing a mask for 15-45 mins in a business. Again its not about us getting Covid or being sheep it’s about The asymptomatic spread that people conveniently leave out in their flu/pneumonia defense.
 
Most people aren’t worried for themselves. How many of those other things can kill someone else that came from you and you had no idea you had it. Quite a few people say the same stuff over and over. The flu can kill you pneumonia can kill you, all true and no one denies that. But you also know when you have pneumonia and the flu and you stay away from people, especially the elderly in your family. You are not out at bars and the grocery store when you have those things. You are not at work near coworkers spreading that around the office. You are home getting better and nowhere near the elderly in your family. Those are all facts. You guys love the sheep talk it’s bs. Asymptomatic spread is conveniently left out by most posters Because it doesn’t fit their narrative.


Sadly a car wreck, suicide, pools and shootings only kill a few people or in massacres a hundred and once it happens it’s done. I get your point but some on this board are also missing perspective the other way.

If wearing a mask when around people in a grocery store or a business keeps the govt from over reaching then I’m glad to do it. Business have the right to ask you to wear a mask or just don’t go there. It is no different than no shoes no shirt no service which no one has a problem with. Elderly have every right to go to a grocery store to live, They are Americans too. If it Saves us a trillion dollars (no ridiculous 2nd shut down) and helps slow down (not stop) the spread I don’t see the big deal in wearing a mask for 15-45 mins in a business. Again its not about us getting Covid or being sheep it’s about The asymptomatic spread that people conveniently leave out in their flu/pneumonia defense.
The masks are a sham they do not work, they give the appearance of proactive measures to politicians who can't do anything to control this. Look at California, they have had a statewide mask policy since April that you have to wear it everywhere and yet they are having a huge spike. Reality is this virus is here, we should be smart and take advantage of the fact that it has not significantly mutated and get to herd immunity before it potentially does. There's no hiding from this unless we were to go full lockdown, no one leaves their home and national guard delivers rationed supplies to the home. Otherwise we have to realize it will do what viruses do and spread until herd immunity is reached.
 
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The masks are a sham they do not work, they give the appearance of proactive measures to politicians who can't do anything to control this. Look at California, they have had a statewide mask policy since April that you have to wear it everywhere and yet they are having a huge spike. Reality is this virus is here, we should be smart and take advantage of the fact that it has not significantly mutated and get to herd immunity before it potentially does. There's no hiding from this unless we were to go full lockdown, no one leaves their home and national guard delivers rationed supplies to the home. Otherwise we have to realize it will do what viruses do and spread until herd immunity is reached.


Masks don’t work to stop the spread agreed but they do reduce particles from mouth and nose, Which helps slow the spread. Why do you think we cover our mouth and nose when we sneeze before Covid existed? That has nothing to do with politics lmao. Just facts that something in front of your nose and mouth doesn’t allow all particles out in the air. They end up on your arm or hands or a mask.
 
Most people aren’t worried for themselves. How many of those other things can kill someone else that came from you and you had no idea you had it. Quite a few people say the same stuff over and over. The flu can kill you pneumonia can kill you, all true and no one denies that. But you also know when you have pneumonia and the flu and you stay away from people, especially the elderly in your family. You are not out at bars and the grocery store when you have those things. You are not at work near coworkers spreading that around the office. You are home getting better and nowhere near the elderly in your family. Those are all facts. You guys love the sheep talk it’s bs. Asymptomatic spread is conveniently left out by most posters Because it doesn’t fit their narrative.


Sadly a car wreck, suicide, pools and shootings only kill a few people or in massacres a hundred and once it happens it’s done. I get your point but some on this board are also missing perspective the other way.

If wearing a mask when around people in a grocery store or a business keeps the govt from over reaching then I’m glad to do it. Business have the right to ask you to wear a mask or just don’t go there. It is no different than no shoes no shirt no service which no one has a problem with. Elderly have every right to go to a grocery store to live, They are Americans too. If it Saves us a trillion dollars (no ridiculous 2nd shut down) and helps slow down (not stop) the spread I don’t see the big deal in wearing a mask for 15-45 mins in a business. Again its not about us getting Covid or being sheep it’s about The asymptomatic spread that people conveniently leave out in their flu/pneumonia defense.
Then why did the Director General of the WHO have this to say in his opening remarks to the media on March 3. "First, COVID-19 does not transmit as efficiently as influenza, from the data we have so far. With influenza, people who are infected but not yet sick are major drivers of transmission, which does not appear to be the case for COVID." Now, they were wrong about COVID as it was a new virus to them at that point but many years of studying influenza let's them know that those that are asymptomatic with the flu are "major drivers of transmission" in spreading it. Not sure why we are not mandating masks during flu season to save all those lives that are vulnerable to dying from it. Do we not love our neighbors and elderly enough to wear masks for that deadly contagious virus? In fact why not mandate mask use year round and then we can be done with viruses forever? :rolleyes:
 
Then why did the Director General of the WHO have this to say in his opening remarks to the media on March 3. "First, COVID-19 does not transmit as efficiently as influenza, from the data we have so far. With influenza, people who are infected but not yet sick are major drivers of transmission, which does not appear to be the case for COVID." Now, they were wrong about COVID as it was a new virus to them at that point but many years of studying influenza let's them know that those that are asymptomatic with the flu are "major drivers of transmission" in spreading it. Not sure why we are not mandating masks during flu season to save all those lives that are vulnerable to dying from it. Do we not love our neighbors and elderly enough to wear masks for that deadly contagious virus? In fact why not mandate mask use year round and then we can be done with viruses forever? :rolleyes:


I look good In a mask so I would help my fellow Americans any way I can lol.

also flu we have a flu shot and asymptomatic influenza is between 4-25% of cases and is seasonal. We don’t know enough about Covid because as you mentioned it is so new but we don’t have a Covid shot out yet. And it is definitely not seasonal. Once we do have a shot then it will be more like the Seasonal flu IMO.
 
Masks don’t work to stop the spread agreed but they do reduce particles from mouth and nose, Which helps slow the spread. Why do you think we cover our mouth and nose when we sneeze before Covid existed? That has nothing to do with politics lmao. Just facts that something in front of your nose and mouth doesn’t allow all particles out in the air. They end up on your arm or hands or a mask.
That is actually false, all the mask does is reduce the distance these particles travel. Furthermore viruses are .5 microns or less and can easily travel both in and out of cloth masks. I will concede that they present a very minor obstacle to this virus but that is all. There is absolutely no evidence in case numbers that this has been effective anywhere. Furthermore in areas were close proximity is required they are useless because this small benefit of distance the particles traveled is negated, I'm talking about public transportation, aisles at stores, elevators.
 
:) But should they be mandated? Think of all the lives that we could save.


I don’t think it should be mandated by government but I’m good with a business requiring it. As I mentioned Before to me it’s no different than no shoes no shirt no service. If you don’t want to wear a mask go to a place that doesn’t require it.
 
That is actually false, all the mask does is reduce the distance these particles travel. Furthermore viruses are .5 microns or less and can easily travel both in and out of cloth masks. I will concede that they present a very minor obstacle to this virus but that is all. There is absolutely no evidence in case numbers that this has been effective anywhere. Furthermore in areas were close proximity is required they are useless because this small benefit of distance the particles traveled is negated, I'm talking about public transportation, aisles at stores, elevators.


I stayed at a hotel the other day and they were allowing only 2 in elevator at a time or 1 family. And stores are Doing one way aisles and asking people to stay 6 feet apart So places are doing their part to help but that only helps so much. But I agree with you on public transportation no way to distance there. With social distancing and mask reducing the distance particles travel only helps not hurting anyone. Again I don’t think masks should be mandated by government but I am good with business requiring it. People can choose not to shop there if they don’t like the policy.
 
I look good In a mask so I would help my fellow Americans any way I can lol.

also flu we have a flu shot and asymptomatic influenza is between 4-25% of cases and is seasonal. We don’t know enough about Covid because as you mentioned it is so new but we don’t have a Covid shot out yet. And it is definitely not seasonal. Once we do have a shot then it will be more like the Seasonal flu IMO.
If you would like to wear one for the rest of your life please feel free to do so, I will not wear it one second longer than I am required by law. My issue is not as much the masks but the childish nature they have been applied and the fact this has become law without definition. Yesterday I went out to eat at a networking event, there were 10 of us at a table (max allowed) eating and talking without masks, if any of us had it now we all do (we all get the risks and still chose to meet), but when we left I had to wear a mask for 10 feet to the door of a nearly empty restaurant. Childish application, if the danger is so large to the public we should not be allowed to leave our homes let alone have 10 strangers gather. This is why I say it is a facade of action to show that politicians are in charge and doing something to save people. Now perhaps my biggest issue is that there is no definition to when this nonsense ends, if someone said OK we do this till cases decline to say 1000 a day fine I'll go along with this even if it's nonsense. To date I do not know of any definition as to how it ends and that is what bothers me most.
 
I don’t think it should be mandated by government but I’m good with a business requiring it. As I mentioned Before to me it’s no different than no shoes no shirt no service. If you don’t want to wear a mask go to a place that doesn’t require it.
If all businesses require it though, isn't that the same as quarantining healthy people, if they choose not to wear one? Why should the more than 99.5% that will survive this just fine have to go to such extraordinary measures for one deadly virus and not the other one?
 
I stayed at a hotel the other day and they were allowing only 2 in elevator at a time or 1 family. And stores are Doing one way aisles and asking people to stay 6 feet apart So places are doing their part to help but that only helps so much. But I agree with you on public transportation no way to distance there. With social distancing and mask reducing the distance particles travel only helps not hurting anyone. Again I don’t think masks should be mandated by government but I am good with business requiring it. People can choose not to shop there if they don’t like the policy.
This we are in 100% agreement on. I used to do most of my grocery shopping at Fresh Market, then they started requiring masks back in April, so I stopped shopping there. If a business chooses to mandate they have every right to and a customer can choose whether or not to shop there. If government mandates them for people and businesses I think they should be required to provide to all. Businesses doing it also provides a real time measure as to the compliance as both the business and customer can choose their actions at will.
 
If all businesses require it though, isn't that the same as quarantining healthy people, if they choose not to wear one? Why should the more than 99.5% that will survive this just fine have to go to such extraordinary measures for one deadly virus and not the other one?
If this were left to business then surely there would be plenty of businesses that would not require as the ones that do require would create a market hormones that don't. This is capitalism at its finest, however government and bureaucracy does not support this hence we all wear masks with no end in sight as to when we won't.
 
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If this were left to business then surely there would be plenty of businesses that would not require as the ones that do require would create a market hormones that don't. This is capitalism at its finest, however government and bureaucracy does not support this hence we all wear masks with no end in sight as to when we won't.
Normally I would agree with you on this but in this day and age those businesses that would not require masks would probably be publicly shamed into mandating them. We are heading down some slippery slopes in this country at an alarming rate. BTW, why have you not posted much until now? Your posts are thought provoking and founded on reasoning that is sometimes lacking here.
 
Most people aren’t worried for themselves. How many of those other things can kill someone else that came from you and you had no idea you had it. Quite a few people say the same stuff over and over. The flu can kill you pneumonia can kill you, all true and no one denies that. But you also know when you have pneumonia and the flu and you stay away from people, especially the elderly in your family. You are not out at bars and the grocery store when you have those things. You are not at work near coworkers spreading that around the office. You are home getting better and nowhere near the elderly in your family. Those are all facts. You guys love the sheep talk it’s bs. Asymptomatic spread is conveniently left out by most posters Because it doesn’t fit their narrative.


Sadly a car wreck, suicide, pools and shootings only kill a few people or in massacres a hundred and once it happens it’s done. I get your point but some on this board are also missing perspective the other way.

If wearing a mask when around people in a grocery store or a business keeps the govt from over reaching then I’m glad to do it. Business have the right to ask you to wear a mask or just don’t go there. It is no different than no shoes no shirt no service which no one has a problem with. Elderly have every right to go to a grocery store to live, They are Americans too. If it Saves us a trillion dollars (no ridiculous 2nd shut down) and helps slow down (not stop) the spread I don’t see the big deal in wearing a mask for 15-45 mins in a business. Again its not about us getting Covid or being sheep it’s about The asymptomatic spread that people conveniently leave out in their flu/pneumonia defense.
Excellent points. We have a way of seeking out information to weaponize an argument. There is no need to do this. Keep it simple. It's a virus. It's a deadly virus....and is nothing like the flu. That doesn't make it the most deadly virus ever. That's moot.

We have a ton of resources in 2020 that we didn't have in 1918. That's why the death rates would obviously be much higher. That is the case with the flu as well. We have the benefit of better technology and advancement in the medical field.

We need to take the advice of the experts so we can exercise our rights. It can't be the other way around.
 
Excellent points. We have a way of seeking out information to weaponize an argument. There is no need to do this. Keep it simple. It's a virus. It's a deadly virus....and is nothing like the flu. That doesn't make it the most deadly virus ever. That's moot.

We have a ton of resources in 2020 that we didn't have in 1918. That's why the death rates would obviously be much higher. That is the case with the flu as well. We have the benefit of better technology and advancement in the medical field.

We need to take the advice of the experts so we can exercise our rights. It can't be the other way around.
Yep, it's nothing like the flu that is much more deadly to the younger generations. Let us know when COVID has been around for over 100 years and is still killing hundreds of thousands around the world even with a vaccine. At best, COVID is nothing more than the flu's little brother. Not sure why anyone would downplay just how deadly the flu still is after all the time we've been dealing with it unless they have an agenda.
 
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If all businesses require it though, isn't that the same as quarantining healthy people, if they choose not to wear one? Why should the more than 99.5% that will survive this just fine have to go to such extraordinary measures for one deadly virus and not the other one?

Other diseases are not new and we have medicine known to work, Even shots to prevent the spread. There is no perfect answer but it’s not mandated by the government and the business chooses that policy You have a right not to go shop there.

I’m vacationing in sea isle NJ no govt mandate but Every business requires a mask. No one complains and no one is causing scenes here. It’s just the way business have it set up and people are dealing with it. The people who don’t want to wear one send someone who will. You are not going to have everything your way in life obviously. There are certain compromises we make in every day life.

If it hasn’t affected you personally u tend to feel differently (not saying you specifically) My brother in-laws brother In Hospital fighting for his life. 45 years old healthy no pre existing conditions. Was given to him from a buddy who was asymptomatic. Look there is no perfect answer but I’m against government mandate for sure and good with a business requiring is all. I think things will change with vaccine or known medicine that works. Thera flu helps for influenza hopefully we find something for Covid. Just a lot of unknowns since it is so new.
 
Other diseases are not new and we have medicine known to work, Even shots to prevent the spread. There is no perfect answer but it’s not mandated by the government and the business chooses that policy You have a right not to go shop there.

I’m vacationing in sea isle NJ no govt mandate but Every business requires a mask. No one complains and no one is causing scenes here. It’s just the way business have it set up and people are dealing with it. The people who don’t want to wear one send someone who will. You are not going to have everything your way in life obviously. There are certain compromises we make in every day life.

If it hasn’t affected you personally u tend to feel differently (not saying you specifically) My brother in-laws brother In Hospital fighting for his life. 45 years old healthy no pre existing conditions. Was given to him from a buddy who was asymptomatic. Look there is no perfect answer but I’m against government mandate for sure and good with a business requiring is all. I think things will change with vaccine or known medicine that works. Thera flu helps for influenza hopefully we find something for Covid. Just a lot of unknowns since it is so new.
That's the thing Tampa. I am friends with a guy here in Utah that lost his Grandson to the flu in Jan. He and another schoolmate both died around the same time and from different strains, even though there is a vaccine and other medicines for it like Thera-Flu. It seems very hypocritical to me that we are so worried about saving lives from one deadly contagious virus but not the other one, especially one that is so much more deadly with younger people.
 
Excellent points. We have a way of seeking out information to weaponize an argument. There is no need to do this. Keep it simple. It's a virus. It's a deadly virus....and is nothing like the flu. That doesn't make it the most deadly virus ever. That's moot.

We have a ton of resources in 2020 that we didn't have in 1918. That's why the death rates would obviously be much higher. That is the case with the flu as well. We have the benefit of better technology and advancement in the medical field.

We need to take the advice of the experts so we can exercise our rights. It can't be the other way around.
You are correct it is not like the flu in that it is twice as deadly to the population in general and about 1.5 times more contagious. A huge advantage of it not being like the flu is that it kills almost exclusively the elderly and very ill, which would mean if we could have secured the elderly and gone for herd immunity we would have far less death and economic destruction than we currently do. The reality is this virus will kill no more than 300,000 before herd immunity is reached and that should be given serious thought in light of the wanton economic destruction that is happening. Poverty and unemployment kill people too with malnutrition, drug dependency, mental illnesses and chronic disease. This is given virtually no weight or consideration when making policy decision yet it effects the young who could be severely stunted for life physically, mentally and economically. Compare this to Covid which kills 95% people who are in poor health and even completely incapacitated. Not saying their deaths are not sad to their loved ones, but extending the life of a nursing home patient at the end of their lifespan should not come at the cost of 1500 jobs.
 
Excellent points. We have a way of seeking out information to weaponize an argument. There is no need to do this. Keep it simple. It's a virus. It's a deadly virus....and is nothing like the flu. That doesn't make it the most deadly virus ever. That's moot.

We have a ton of resources in 2020 that we didn't have in 1918. That's why the death rates would obviously be much higher. That is the case with the flu as well. We have the benefit of better technology and advancement in the medical field.

We need to take the advice of the experts so we can exercise our rights. It can't be the other way around.
You are right we have way more resources because of the bravery and industriousness of the generation that muscled through the 1918 epidemic. We should heed the lessons of that time and push through or rather than build on the gains we have made we will back track and become less wealthy which makes us less adequately equipped to deal with situations like the one at hand. Health, wealth and success are not an American birth right they are earned and our leadership seems hell bent on walking back the progress that has been made by our nation in the past. 10 trillion dollars is a tremendous sum to straddle future generations with over a disease that has claimed the lives of .03% of the population.
 
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You are correct it is not like the flu in that it is twice as deadly to the population in general and about 1.5 times more contagious. A huge advantage of it not being like the flu is that it kills almost exclusively the elderly and very ill, which would mean if we could have secured the elderly and gone for herd immunity we would have far less death and economic destruction than we currently do. The reality is this virus will kill no more than 300,000 before herd immunity is reached and that should be given serious thought in light of the wanton economic destruction that is happening. Poverty and unemployment kill people too with malnutrition, drug dependency, mental illnesses and chronic disease. This is given virtually no weight or consideration when making policy decision yet it effects the young who could be severely stunted for life physically, mentally and economically. Compare this to Covid which kills 95% people who are in poor health and even completely incapacitated. Not saying their deaths are not sad to their loved ones, but extending the life of a nursing home patient at the end of their lifespan should not come at the cost of 1500 jobs.
It doesn't almost exclusively kill the elderly. I'm not sure what news source you use but that just is not accurate.

Yes, the elderly is most at risk only because of their compromised immune system. Many elderly people have pre-existing conditions.

However you don't need to be elderly have pre-existing conditions or pass it along to someone that does. You aren't understanding the seriousness of what is going on. This is primarily why the US is epicenter of the world. People in this country don't take it seriously enough.
 
Most people aren’t worried for themselves. How many of those other things can kill someone else that came from you and you had no idea you had it. Quite a few people say the same stuff over and over. The flu can kill you pneumonia can kill you, all true and no one denies that. But you also know when you have pneumonia and the flu and you stay away from people, especially the elderly in your family. You are not out at bars and the grocery store when you have those things. You are not at work near coworkers spreading that around the office. You are home getting better and nowhere near the elderly in your family. Those are all facts. You guys love the sheep talk it’s bs. Asymptomatic spread is conveniently left out by most posters Because it doesn’t fit their narrative.


Sadly a car wreck, suicide, pools and shootings only kill a few people or in massacres a hundred and once it happens it’s done. I get your point but some on this board are also missing perspective the other way.

If wearing a mask when around people in a grocery store or a business keeps the govt from over reaching then I’m glad to do it. Business have the right to ask you to wear a mask or just don’t go there. It is no different than no shoes no shirt no service which no one has a problem with. Elderly have every right to go to a grocery store to live, They are Americans too. If it Saves us a trillion dollars (no ridiculous 2nd shut down) and helps slow down (not stop) the spread I don’t see the big deal in wearing a mask for 15-45 mins in a business. Again its not about us getting Covid or being sheep it’s about The asymptomatic spread that people conveniently leave out in their flu/pneumonia defense.
If wearing a mask when around people in a grocery store or a business keeps the govt from over reaching then I’m glad to do it.
Doing what the govt tells you to do in the hope the govt will give you your life back never works...
 
Stanford epidemiologist Dr. John Ioannidis recently ran a great article where he compared the amount of years of life have been lost by Covid and compared this to the 1918 Spanish flu. His purpose in this was to demonstrate the overreaction to poor data and the hysteria this has caused. The premise of the article is rather than looking at raw death count (even tough 1918 flu had 3 times as many dead when US population was only 120M vs 330M today) he took a look into the expected years of life lost. This did not look so good for the Covid lockdowns since the avg age at death for Covid is 78 vs avg age of death for 1918 flu was 28, yikes! If you do the math on Covid deaths (125,000) x 2.5 (avg life span in US is 80.5) you get 312,500 lost life years. Seems like a ton to me, but lets try 1918 flu where almost no lockdowns where implemented. 1918 Flu deaths 450,000 x 30 (avg life span in US in 1918 was 58) and you get 13,500,000. Holy Horse F#ck Batman!! By my math that is 43x the life expectancy lost in that pandemic than the current one, my guess would have to be the strong leadership by a Democrat President.

Since I had the free time this afternoon I hopped on the CDC and US census bureau website and wanted to compare how Covid stacks up to things we do for fun in the US everyday. I wanted to compare this to Covid by assuming no vaccine is found and we have 300,000 deaths before reaching herd immunity (This would be 750,000 years of lost life expectancy). All I can say is hold on to your butts.

1. Opiod OD- Otherwise known as West Virginia's favorite past time.
10 year avg deaths- 61,000/ Avg age of deaths 31/ 3,080,500 yr 30,805,000 life exp years in a decade.
Drs. start you scrip books, 4x more deadly in a year than Covid could ever be.
2. Driving- AKA that deadly hunk of metal in your driveway waiting to take you to an early grave
10 yr avg death- 42,000/ Avg age- 42/ 1,617,000 yr 16,170,000 decade
Better get your car to the scrap yard quick, if it doesn't kill you along the way, because yearly this is twice the carnage Covid could ever hope to do.
3. Suicide- TDS got you down
10 yr avg death 45,000/ Avg age 28/ 2,362,500 yr 23,625,000 decade
Put away those sleeping pills, drain that hot bath and pull that shot gun out of your mouth, suicide is 3 times worse than Covid is on its best day.
4. Swimming pools- Who knew the grim reaper was amphibious
10 yr avg death 3600/ Avg age 18/ 225,000 per year 2,250,000 decade
Quick lock up the kids and walk over to Sunbelt (assuming you managed to survive taking your car to the scrap yard) and get that bulldozer because your aquatic death trap must be filled in post haste. Over a decade this is 3 times as deadly as the Rona will ever dream of reaching.
5. Shooting people for no reason- AKA Chicago's favorite past time
10 yr avg death 18,600/ Avg age- 24/ 1,050,900 yr 10,509,000 decade
This race might be too close to call. But wait... whats that Defund the Police blocks Covid and its Shooting People For No Reason in a landslide.

This is actually sad stuff because it's all avoidable, but the point is this is s#it that we don't even think about. Perhaps the politicians and Covid Karens should consider data and think long and hard before making decisions that put 30M people out of work and destroy hundreds of thousands of business. Elderly people dying is sad by all means, but everyone on the planet is going to die some day. Unnecessarily stunting and destroying the futures of millions of Americans is an absolute tragedy and can be stopped with the stroke of a pen. We didn't shut down in 1918 because we had WW1 to win and an economic powerhouse to build, perhaps we should take from our ancestors and get on with life.
Sensational post. Everyone wants to be safe which means you want control, but that is an illusion. Like others, I've had the tragedy of losing 3 family members to Pancreatic Cancer. Tragic, but the reality and the randomness of life. This virus is nothing...
 
You are right we have way more resources because of the bravery and industriousness of the generation that muscled through the 1918 epidemic. We should heed the lessons of that time and push through or rather than build on the gains we have made we will back track and become less wealthy which makes us less adequately equipped to deal with situations like the one at hand. Health, wealth and success are not an American birth right they are earned and our leadership seems hell bent on walking back the progress that has been made by our nation in the past. 10 trillion dollars is a tremendous sum to straddle future generations with over a disease that has claimed the lives of .03% of the population.
Take a little off. There are essential workers working 20 hour shifts. Please don't disrespect them...they aren't getting more pay. People today are plenty brave.... but it takes smarts. Listen to experts on it not people politicizing this.
 
It doesn't almost exclusively kill the elderly. I'm not sure what news source you use but that just is not accurate.

Yes, the elderly is most at risk only because of their compromised immune system. Many elderly people have pre-existing conditions.

However you don't need to be elderly have pre-existing conditions or pass it along to someone that does. You aren't understanding the seriousness of what is going on. This is primarily why the US the epicenter of the world. People in this country don't take it seriously enough.
First of all stop with this nonsense we are the epicenter of the world with this, Brazil, Europe, India and Mexico all have massive outbreaks occurring as we speak and with the exception of Europe these countries don't have the tracking we do.

Now to my news source, it is none other than the data available from the CDC website. On it you will find that of the current death toll 82% is people over the age of 65, while 1% is those under 30. Furthermore of the deaths the CDC has found almost 350,000 comorbidities reported with the deaths. This is almost 3 comorbidities per death, this would indicate that these people are extremely sick even before they had Covid. Couple this with the data that almost 60% of all deaths reported were people nursing homes and ASL facilities (think about your hero Andrew Cuomo), young people do not reside in nursing home and nursing home/ASL make up less than 2% of overall population. Are there healthy people who die of this, sure, about 7000 so far which is less than an average flu season. So sorry the facts don't support what you desperately want to be true.
 
Take a little off. There are essential workers working 20 hour shifts. Please don't disrespect them...they aren't getting more pay. People today are plenty brave.... but it takes smarts. Listen to experts on it not people politicizing this.
You mean the experts who said 2.5 million would die if we didn't wreck our economy, the experts who said this will not leave Wuhan, the experts who said masks aren't effective, the experts who said the death rate would be 5%.

Sorry I gave them their shot. Fool me once shame on you, fool me all the time shame on me.

I would suggest reading the expert Dr. John Iaonnidis of Stanford.
 
Take a little off. There are essential workers working 20 hour shifts. Please don't disrespect them...they aren't getting more pay. People today are plenty brave.... but it takes smarts. Listen to experts on it not people politicizing this.
Those workers at least have jobs CD, and they can always quit if it gets to be too much for them. How does one know for sure someone is an "expert"? Do you agree with the "experts" who think we should open schools?
 
Those workers at least have jobs CD, and they can always quit if it gets to be too much for them. How does one know for sure someone is an "expert"? Do you agree with the "experts" who think we should open schools?
Well said, also keep in mind nurses usually work long shifts but only work these shifts 2-3 times a week. They are also given substantial breaks and many even get time for an hour nap during their shifts. My wife and I are very good friends with about a dozen nurses and they are all doing quite well, I am happy to report. Two even work in hospitals that have been reported to have been overrun in recent days, however they weren't able to locate where.
 
Those workers at least have jobs CD, and they can always quit if it gets to be too much for them. How does one know for sure someone is an "expert"? Do you agree with the "experts" who think we should open schools?
You are missing the point. Having a job has nothing to do with showing bravery or heroism. We can't take for granted thier sacrifice. We can't afford for them to quit. Who exactly do you think would do it if they quit?

How does someone know who is an expert? Did I understand this question right? They spend years/decades studying in that field. They are qualified. Not liking or agreeing with what they say as an inconvenience doesn't make them unqualified... They can make mistakes like any other human beings. They are still this experts.

Do I agree with school openings. I have already stated. I agree with people who understand the virus. The experts. I'm not interested in political expediency. I am interested in the health and safety of the kids.
 
First of all stop with this nonsense we are the epicenter of the world with this, Brazil, Europe, India and Mexico all have massive outbreaks occurring as we speak and with the exception of Europe these countries don't have the tracking we do.

Now to my news source, it is none other than the data available from the CDC website. On it you will find that of the current death toll 82% is people over the age of 65, while 1% is those under 30. Furthermore of the deaths the CDC has found almost 350,000 comorbidities reported with the deaths. This is almost 3 comorbidities per death, this would indicate that these people are extremely sick even before they had Covid. Couple this with the data that almost 60% of all deaths reported were people nursing homes and ASL facilities (think about your hero Andrew Cuomo), young people do not reside in nursing home and nursing home/ASL make up less than 2% of overall population. Are there healthy people who die of this, sure, about 7000 so far which is less than an average flu season. So sorry the facts don't support what you desperately want to be true.
He runs from facts just as fast as he does from rent collectors.
 
Well said, also keep in mind nurses usually work long shifts but only work these shifts 2-3 times a week. They are also given substantial breaks and many even get time for an hour nap during their shifts. My wife and I are very good friends with about a dozen nurses and they are all doing quite well, I am happy to report. Two even work in hospitals that have been reported to have been overrun in recent days, however they weren't able to locate where.
Only? Have you ever worked a 20 hour shift?
 
You are missing the point. Having a job has nothing to do with showing bravery or heroism. We can't take for granted thier sacrifice. We can't afford for them to quit. Who exactly do you think would do it if they quit?

How does someone know who is an expert? Did I understand this question right? They spend years/decades studying in that field. They are qualified. Not liking or agreeing with what they say as an inconvenience doesn't make them unqualified... They can make mistakes like any other human beings. They are still this experts.

Do I agree with school openings. I have already stated. I agree with people who understand the virus. The experts. I'm not interested in political expediency. I am interested in the health and safety of the kids.
If you are more worried about the health and safety of the kids then you would not ignore the fact that the flu, which you like to downplay for some reason, is much more deadly to them. That is a fact that every 'expert" agrees with.
 
You mean the experts who said 2.5 million would die if we didn't wreck our economy, the experts who said this will not leave Wuhan, the experts who said masks aren't effective, the experts who said the death rate would be 5%.

Sorry I gave them their shot. Fool me once shame on you, fool me all the time shame on me.

I would suggest reading the expert Dr. John Iaonnidis of Stanford.
I don't know who you are referring to. I said no expert is 100 accurate.... even who you are referring me to. We have not been listening and you see the results. Look at the successful countries.
 
Stanford epidemiologist Dr. John Ioannidis recently ran a great article where he compared the amount of years of life have been lost by Covid and compared this to the 1918 Spanish flu. His purpose in this was to demonstrate the overreaction to poor data and the hysteria this has caused. The premise of the article is rather than looking at raw death count (even tough 1918 flu had 3 times as many dead when US population was only 120M vs 330M today) he took a look into the expected years of life lost. This did not look so good for the Covid lockdowns since the avg age at death for Covid is 78 vs avg age of death for 1918 flu was 28, yikes! If you do the math on Covid deaths (125,000) x 2.5 (avg life span in US is 80.5) you get 312,500 lost life years. Seems like a ton to me, but lets try 1918 flu where almost no lockdowns where implemented. 1918 Flu deaths 450,000 x 30 (avg life span in US in 1918 was 58) and you get 13,500,000. Holy Horse F#ck Batman!! By my math that is 43x the life expectancy lost in that pandemic than the current one, my guess would have to be the strong leadership by a Democrat President.

Since I had the free time this afternoon I hopped on the CDC and US census bureau website and wanted to compare how Covid stacks up to things we do for fun in the US everyday. I wanted to compare this to Covid by assuming no vaccine is found and we have 300,000 deaths before reaching herd immunity (This would be 750,000 years of lost life expectancy). All I can say is hold on to your butts.

1. Opiod OD- Otherwise known as West Virginia's favorite past time.
10 year avg deaths- 61,000/ Avg age of deaths 31/ 3,080,500 yr 30,805,000 life exp years in a decade.
Drs. start you scrip books, 4x more deadly in a year than Covid could ever be.
2. Driving- AKA that deadly hunk of metal in your driveway waiting to take you to an early grave
10 yr avg death- 42,000/ Avg age- 42/ 1,617,000 yr 16,170,000 decade
Better get your car to the scrap yard quick, if it doesn't kill you along the way, because yearly this is twice the carnage Covid could ever hope to do.
3. Suicide- TDS got you down
10 yr avg death 45,000/ Avg age 28/ 2,362,500 yr 23,625,000 decade
Put away those sleeping pills, drain that hot bath and pull that shot gun out of your mouth, suicide is 3 times worse than Covid is on its best day.
4. Swimming pools- Who knew the grim reaper was amphibious
10 yr avg death 3600/ Avg age 18/ 225,000 per year 2,250,000 decade
Quick lock up the kids and walk over to Sunbelt (assuming you managed to survive taking your car to the scrap yard) and get that bulldozer because your aquatic death trap must be filled in post haste. Over a decade this is 3 times as deadly as the Rona will ever dream of reaching.
5. Shooting people for no reason- AKA Chicago's favorite past time
10 yr avg death 18,600/ Avg age- 24/ 1,050,900 yr 10,509,000 decade
This race might be too close to call. But wait... whats that Defund the Police blocks Covid and its Shooting People For No Reason in a landslide.

This is actually sad stuff because it's all avoidable, but the point is this is s#it that we don't even think about. Perhaps the politicians and Covid Karens should consider data and think long and hard before making decisions that put 30M people out of work and destroy hundreds of thousands of business. Elderly people dying is sad by all means, but everyone on the planet is going to die some day. Unnecessarily stunting and destroying the futures of millions of Americans is an absolute tragedy and can be stopped with the stroke of a pen. We didn't shut down in 1918 because we had WW1 to win and an economic powerhouse to build, perhaps we should take from our ancestors and get on with life.
Careful to much common sense is hard for others to understand. Most liberals can not absorb common sense because they leave it up to the Government to think for them. LOL
 
Other diseases are not new and we have medicine known to work, Even shots to prevent the spread. There is no perfect answer but it’s not mandated by the government and the business chooses that policy You have a right not to go shop there.

I’m vacationing in sea isle NJ no govt mandate but Every business requires a mask. No one complains and no one is causing scenes here. It’s just the way business have it set up and people are dealing with it. The people who don’t want to wear one send someone who will. You are not going to have everything your way in life obviously. There are certain compromises we make in every day life.

If it hasn’t affected you personally u tend to feel differently (not saying you specifically) My brother in-laws brother In Hospital fighting for his life. 45 years old healthy no pre existing conditions. Was given to him from a buddy who was asymptomatic. Look there is no perfect answer but I’m against government mandate for sure and good with a business requiring is all. I think things will change with vaccine or known medicine that works. Thera flu helps for influenza hopefully we find something for Covid. Just a lot of unknowns since it is so new.
You are missing the point. Having a job has nothing to do with showing bravery or heroism. We can't take for granted thier sacrifice. We can't afford for them to quit. Who exactly do you think would do it if they quit?

How does someone know who is an expert? Did I understand this question right? They spend years/decades studying in that field. They are qualified. Not liking or agreeing with what they say as an inconvenience doesn't make them unqualified... They can make mistakes like any other human beings. They are still this experts.

Do I agree with school openings. I have already stated. I agree with people who understand the virus. The experts. I'm not interested in political expediency. I am interested in the health and safety of the kids.
First of all as I previously stated I am friend with many nurses, they are busy but enjoy their work and none have even mentioned wanting to quit. Second, other than soldiers I never make it a point to thank people at random who do a job. Third, the American Association of Pediatrics has adamantly stated as recently as a week ago that all efforts possible should be made to return students to live classrooms, is that expert enough for you. Fourth, after presented with data about how old and infirm the Covid deaths are according to data from the CDC I got crickets from your end, can I assume we are I agreement.
 
First of all as I previously stated I am friend with many nurses, they are busy but enjoy their work and none have even mentioned wanting to quit. Second, other than soldiers I never make it a point to thank people at random who do a job. Third, the American Association of Pediatrics has adamantly stated as recently as a week ago that all efforts possible should be made to return students to live classrooms, is that expert enough for you. Fourth, after presented with data about how old and infirm the Covid deaths are according to data from the CDC I got crickets from your end, can I assume we are I agreement.

First....I know you stated you are friends with nurses. I just don't see how that would qualify. Most of us know nurses or doctors. They are in my family. That has nothing to do with what I am saying. I enjoy my work too. That doesn't mean I think it is okay for my boss to ask me to work 20 hour shifts with no additional pay. You are conflating things that don't need to be conflated.

Second, there is nothing wrong with thanking or showing appreciation for people who have decided to do a public service. It shows emphathy and appreciation which are things that are honorable. Done by honorable men and women. We are not just put here to take...without any appreciation of what others offer.
 
First....I know you stated you are friends with nurses. I just don't see how that would qualify. Most of us know nurses or doctors. They are in my family. That has nothing to do with what I am saying. I enjoy my work too. That doesn't mean I think it is okay for my boss to ask me to work 20 hour shifts with no additional pay. You are conflating things that don't need to be conflated.

Second, there is nothing wrong with thanking or showing appreciation for people who have decided to do a public service. It shows emphathy and appreciation which are things that are honorable. Done by honorable men and women. We are not just put here to take...without any appreciation of what others offer.
Sure, I thank receptionists, servers, bank tellers, pretty much anyone who performs a service job that I patronize (including healthcare). I simply stated that I do not thank people at random for working unless they are soldiers. As to the 20 hour shifts I am sure some do, none of the many I know have worked hours like this. Also nurses usually work 3 12 hours shifts so they are used to a longer shift than a standard 8 hour and usually when they work OT are compensated (the nurses I know love taking extra shifts and getting OT since their standard schedule is only 36 hours a week). If someone you know does not like working a 20 hour shift and they work for a lousy hospital that does not pay OT, I would say you as a friend should suggest they seek a better place to work.

Also please tell are we in agreement on the CDC reports of mostly elderly and infirm patients dying of COVID, I provided you the right wing rag I got the numbers from but it has still been silence on your end.
 
First....I know you stated you are friends with nurses. I just don't see how that would qualify. Most of us know nurses or doctors. They are in my family. That has nothing to do with what I am saying. I enjoy my work too. That doesn't mean I think it is okay for my boss to ask me to work 20 hour shifts with no additional pay. You are conflating things that don't need to be conflated.

Second, there is nothing wrong with thanking or showing appreciation for people who have decided to do a public service. It shows emphathy and appreciation which are things that are honorable. Done by honorable men and women. We are not just put here to take...without any appreciation of what others offer.
CD, nurses have been getting compensated generously during this Covid virus. When there's demand, prices go up.
 
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