Hey....I'm A Witness...lmao

[Brooks B]

So much misinformation here. First is it his fault for the hype? Is it his fault that he had ESPN televising his games in HS and Shaq attending them? If anything you gotta give him credit. He came into this league with unreasonable expectations, to the point that some such as yourself started to resent him for it, and he has delivered. So many would have crumbled and have in his position. Sure he handled the Decision wrong, he could have been more mature and humble but hardly an easy feat when you have been told since you were 16 that you are God's gift to the world. Also there is this false narrative that he isn't an alpha player. From a scoring standpoint he isn't as alpha as Mike and Kobe but just because he isn't them doesn't mean he isn't an alpha. Dude is averaging 33+ in playoff elimination games, the highest ever even over the GOAT. His numbers in the playoffs and the Finals are monster numbers, this isn't even debatable.

Here is the thing against Lebron, and it has in a way become hyperbole, the 2011 Finals. That is a blemish on his record, there is no denying it, but it has completely taken over as this supposed constant for him in the clutch. So lets really take a look here. For years Lebron just didnt get the help he needed. He had no fighting chance as a 22 year old with that Cavs team against the Spurs. In 2011, there is no denying that was a L for him. He took care of business in 2012, cause he had help. Then towards the end of 2013, Wade started to breakdown late in the playoffs. Wade had a terrible ECF against the Pacers averaging 15 5 and 4, and then averaged a respectable but hardly elite 19 4 and 4 against the Spurs. All people remember is Ray Allen hitting that shot, but forget Lebron had a triple double that game, and then followed it up with a 37 12 and 4 game, that included a monster 4th. The following year Wade started breaking down late again and had a terrible Finals. Lebron showed up, and everyone else didnt, but he once again gets labeled. He only got the help he needed for 3 years, and went 2-1. His team fell apart in 2014, and then we all know what happened in 2015 and he still put a bunch of scrubs on his back and carried them to 2 wins. Now these Finals started out rough but he put it together once again, and more importantly had help from Kyrie. The Cavs are still waiting on Love to do something, not even be a 20 and 10 he was expected to be but to do something.

When you really break it down, the narrative that Lebron is not an alpha is total BS. He has his blemishes, no doubt, but for the most part of his career has performed extremely well in high pressure situations.

Great post. The " Decision " was ALL espn's idea. They offered LBJ a million dollars to give his decision like national signing day, in which Lebron gave the money to charity.

 

[Brooks B]

Bitter a

not bitter don't know how that comes off he's never jilted me lost me $ or anything those are facts yes he has more years but I don't know what they'll bring but if they lose game 7 he'll be 2-6 if he wins he'll be 3-5 that's under .500 correct he hasn't performed like that in the 5 losses to this point correct , he played lights out last night but the point is he's been capable of that almost his whole career. Go look at the rosters of the teams he's lost to and tell me they're filled with stars the Spurs come close. What player has he made better than what he was or shall we say helped develope ? And I could care less about his life outside the court because I actually like him there he's just not where you have him in the realm of basketball in my eyes and ALL my basketball reasons are valid not preposterous or pre conceived I've watched and made these observations all on my own.

You need prayer dude....

 

[BreakingCane]

Bitter a

not bitter don't know how that comes off he's never jilted me lost me $ or anything those are facts yes he has more years but I don't know what they'll bring but if they lose game 7 he'll be 2-6 if he wins he'll be 3-5 that's under .500 correct he hasn't performed like that in the 5 losses to this point correct , he played lights out last night but the point is he's been capable of that almost his whole career. Go look at the rosters of the teams he's lost to and tell me they're filled with stars the Spurs come close. What player has he made better than what he was or shall we say helped develope ? And I could care less about his life outside the court because I actually like him there he's just not where you have him in the realm of basketball in my eyes and ALL my basketball reasons are valid not preposterous or pre conceived I've watched and made these observations all on my own.

Great. Pick one stat to knock him on. Finals win %. 3 rings on two different teams. Marino has 0 rings and he is one of the best QBs to ever play the game. Jim Kelly as well.

 

[cdwright40]

Bitter a

not bitter don't know how that comes off he's never jilted me lost me $ or anything those are facts yes he has more years but I don't know what they'll bring but if they lose game 7 he'll be 2-6 if he wins he'll be 3-5 that's under .500 correct he hasn't performed like that in the 5 losses to this point correct , he played lights out last night but the point is he's been capable of that almost his whole career. Go look at the rosters of the teams he's lost to and tell me they're filled with stars the Spurs come close. What player has he made better than what he was or shall we say helped develope ? And I could care less about his life outside the court because I actually like him there he's just not where you have him in the realm of basketball in my eyes and ALL my basketball reasons are valid not preposterous or pre conceived I've watched and made these observations all on my own.

It is preposterous to expect one person to be accountable for team goals. Championships? That is a team goal. Everyone doing their job...and he does his job every night and then some. Expecting him to be winning championships every year is preposterous. Nobody is doing that.

 

[Seanloc1]

Has

Wow...this post really hits it out of the park. Lebron barely makes my top 5 for favorite players but you gotta give this young man his due. Regardless of what happens Sunday. He is just incredibly gifted and he really does the right things off the court too. You never hear about nonsense. Beating wife and kids and drinking incidents. He really is very grounded for someone who has been a national celebrity since 17 years old. Why hate someone for that? He had his high school games televised nationally. That's incredible. He has lived up to the enormous hype.

Has he ? In what sense he's put up fabulous #'s

It is preposterous to expect one person to be accountable for team goals. Championships? That is a team goal. Everyone doing their job...and he does his job every night and then some. Expecting him to be winning championships every year is preposterous. Nobody is doing that.

Then explain to me how he til this day does not catch flack for those lost championship series when he got ALL the credit for going ?

 

[BreakingCane]

Has

Has he ? In what sense he's put up fabulous #'s

Then explain to me how he til this day does not catch flack for those lost championship series when he got ALL the credit for going ?

He lost. His team lost.

 

[Seanloc1]

He lost. His team lost.

Where's the flack is what I'm saying his team didn't make it to the Finals Lebron took them there but when they lost it was the other guys weren't good enough. Miss me with that.

 

[Seanloc1]

It is preposterous to expect one person to be accountable for team goals. Championships? That is a team goal. Everyone doing their job...and he does his job every night and then some. Expecting him to be winning championships every year is preposterous. Nobody is doing that.

If he did his job day in and day out he would have more ships point blank

 

[cdwright40]

Has

Has he ? In what sense he's put up fabulous #'s

Then explain to me how he til this day does not catch flack for those lost championship series when he got ALL the credit for going ?

You have the internet...go look at his stats and compare. Hell he averages over 33 points per game in elimination games dude. Sorry but he does his job. It's not on him when others don't. It is a team game. Not on him when love doesn't show up or kyrie is out hurt. Sorry.

 

[Seanloc1]

Great. Pick one stat to knock him on. Finals win %. 3 rings on two different teams. Marino has 0 rings and he is one of the best QBs to ever play the game. Jim Kelly as well.

They not top 5 though are they ?

 

[BreakingCane]

Where's the flack is what I'm saying his team didn't make it to the Finals Lebron took them there but when they lost it was the other guys weren't good enough. Miss me with that.

I don't remember people pointing fingers. It's a team sport.

 

[BreakingCane]

They not top 5 though are they ?

According to what list?

 

[Seanloc1]

Ok better than Montana no Brady no Elway no Peyton no Big Ben no that's my 5 who is he better than in your opinion

 

[cdwright40]

Ok better than Montana no Brady no Elway no Peyton no Big Ben no that's my 5 who is he better than in your opinion

I don't understand the question.

 

[SolarCane]

Curry's 5th and 6th fouls were horrendous. Lebron was awesome, but there's no excuse for those.

The refs were terrible, but when you only score 9 points in the first 11 minutes of the game and you're down by 20 at the end of the 1st quarter then you can't blame the refs. That's too big of a hole to climb out of against a team as good as Cleveland on defense.

 

[Seanloc1]

I don't understand the question.

Canerob said that

I don't understand the question.

Canerob said that Marino and Kelly were two great QB's and that championships didn't define them since they didn't have any I agreed but then said they're not top 5 either and he said in who's opinion so I gave him a top 5 and asked who were they better than in my top 5. Said that that's the only thing you can ding Lebron on is his finals win % but I think that's the biggest thing and I find hypocrisy in his statements since everyone wants the Canes to win championships again not just play for them!!!

 

[JTH007]

Yeah...Lebron haters are PISSED alright...smdh

Can we move this thread to the Lounge. Does not involve Canes.

 

[JTH007]

I don't know about all this referee nonsense...

Did refs REALLY have anything to do with Golden State missing shot after shot after shot to start the game and having something like 2 points 4 minutes into the game. The game was like 20-6 at one point and all I saw was Golden State chucking up bad shots and failing to rebound any of their misses. Is that really a referre thing? If the game was close the ENTIRE GAME and Cleveland was consistently getting the benefit of a proverbial 50-50 call, THEN I could see an argument that the referees truly had some sort of impact in the game. HOWEVER, that wasn't the case. LeBron and Cleveland faught harder, faught for each other, and frankly looked the mentally tougher team.

Golden State has failed to raise their mental toughness in both Game 5 and Game 6, and if they don't in Game 7, then Cleveland will have earned a historic comeback win.

Terry Porter flagging Sharpe for pass interference in Arizona is screwing a team. What I saw last night was one team showing up and playing dominant well rounded basketball, and another one looking lost and without leadership and mental toughness.

Yes they did. Refs let the Cavs get away with rough housing but no one else.

 

[cdwright40]

Canerob said that

Canerob said that Marino and Kelly were two great QB's and that championships didn't define them since they didn't have any I agreed but then said they're not top 5 either and he said in who's opinion so I gave him a top 5 and asked who were they better than in my top 5. Said that that's the only thing you can ding Lebron on is his finals win % but I think that's the biggest thing and I find hypocrisy in his statements since everyone wants the Canes to win championships again not just play for them!!!

We want the "canes" to win championships. That's what you are missing. The "canes" meaning it is a "team" goal and the entire "team" gets credit for it. Not just one person. Obviously the stars get more credit but what you have to understand is no team wins unless other players contribute. You can't do that for them as an individual. Lebron can't do Kevin Loves job for him. He can't do what Kyrie Irvin does if he is hurt like last year. It's too much. Not his fault. Just like Curry can't do Clays job if he is off or he can't do Greens job if he is suspended. Being great doesn't mean you can do everyone elses job. It means you do your own job and be the star or the focul point. That isn't going to be enough if another star has help. I don't care who you are.

 

[cdwright40]

Can we move this thread to the Lounge. Does not involve Canes.

Don't worry about that.

 

[Seanloc1]

We want the "canes" to win championships. That's what you are missing. The "canes" meaning it is a "team" goal and the entire "team" gets credit for it. Not just one person. Obviously the stars get more credit but what you have to understand is no team wins unless other players contribute. You can't do that for them as an individual. Lebron can't do Kevin Loves job for him. He can't do what Kyrie Irvin does if he is hurt like last year. It's too much. Not his fault. Just like Curry can't do Clays job if he is off or he can't do Greens job if he is suspended. Being great doesn't mean you can do everyone elses job. It means you do your own job and be the star or the focul point. That isn't going to be enough if another star has help. I don't care who you are.

The theme is you judge by championships and don't give me that when the consensus on here is that Kaya needs to win a big game cmon now don't do that where was his help? And again if he does his part be this superstar all time player yes HE is supposed to have a major part in winning isn't that what he's paid for ? To be the franchise player difference maker right?

 

[mmako11]

I don't know about all this referee nonsense...

Did refs REALLY have anything to do with Golden State missing shot after shot after shot to start the game and having something like 2 points 4 minutes into the game. The game was like 20-6 at one point and all I saw was Golden State chucking up bad shots and failing to rebound any of their misses. Is that really a referre thing? If the game was close the ENTIRE GAME and Cleveland was consistently getting the benefit of a proverbial 50-50 call, THEN I could see an argument that the referees truly had some sort of impact in the game. HOWEVER, that wasn't the case. LeBron and Cleveland faught harder, faught for each other, and frankly looked the mentally tougher team.

Golden State has failed to raise their mental toughness in both Game 5 and Game 6, and if they don't in Game 7, then Cleveland will have earned a historic comeback win.

Terry Porter flagging Sharpe for pass interference in Arizona is screwing a team. What I saw last night was one team showing up and playing dominant well rounded basketball, and another one looking lost and without leadership and mental toughness.

Agreed. The game I watched was GS taking a first quarter prison pounding, Shawshank Redeption style........refs had nothing to do with that. To me this is more about some bitter heat fans that prefer to see LJ fail. Im not even a James fan but he has put the team on his back the last 2 games and is clearly locked in. At this point, I think I would wnjoy watching a warrior meltdown if the finish choking away a 3-1 lead.

 

[JTH007]

Don't worry about that.

To the Lounge along with you.

 

[majus12]

Well cjgeyer, I think there were a couple tough calls....but I don't think when you consider GSW never got closer than 7 and had a double digit deficit the vast majority of the game, I can't say it cost them the game. I think Cleveland still outplayed them. Granted there were a couple fouls I would have just let go. Curry has to play smarter with 3 fouls.

I'm sure GSW will get some calls when they get back to Oakland. It should be a lot of fun to watch.

Wow, do u ever take a side. You should bea politician. Enough already,I call BS!!!!
There were ludicrous calls all game long, as well as game 5

 

[cdwright40]

Wow, do u ever take a side. You should bea politician. Enough already,I call BS!!!!
There were ludicrous calls all game long, as well as game 5

I think i did. I said the calls didn't affect the games outcome. Not agreeing with YOU does not equate to not taking a side. I have said a million times that the calls didn't have an affect. Just pay closer attention!

Oh and BTW? Fouls were split 25 for each team. This is why lebron haters are so annoying. They call lebron a bitch while spending all their time bitching.

 

[JTH007]

I think i did. I said the calls didn't affect the games outcome. Not agreeing with YOU does not equate to not taking a side. I have said a million times that the calls didn't have an affect. Just pay closer attention!

Oh and BTW? Fouls were split 25 for each team. This is why lebron haters are so annoying. They call lebron a bitch while spending all their time bitching.

LOUNGE !!!

 

[Linzy]

The league is thrilled. Game 7 additional ad revenue. More time leading Sports Center, it has been orchestrated perfectly. That's what the league does. Players make the plays and shots go in or they don't, but well timed bad calls or missed calls really change the momentum of a game. As soon as GS goes on a run, the officiating gets involved. It is difficult to get past this business. It stopped being sport a long time ago.

Preach my brotha

 

[tlute81]

Nba has been playing with this formula for a while now. Ratings and Vegas money make the world go round.

If exposed for throwing games through the refs because of ratings or vegas, the league needs to be shut down along with all profession sports

 

[Linzy]

Screw LeCramp and the cavs. Right now 2-4. Sunday night back to his old self 2-5. I'm not a warriors fan either. Get those excuses ready. When they win it's the lebron show. When they lose he doesn't have any help. We have seen and heard this before. The only thing changing is the loss column.

 

[cdwright40]

Blah Blah Blah......Meanwhile Lebron is relevant the last game of the year. Miami has been irrelevant since he left....lmao. End of story.

 

[cwebbjb]

Lot of butthurt Heat fans in this thread.

And the ref argument - hahaha. There's awful calls each game for each team. When it's the Lakers shooting 18 more free throws than the Kings in the 4th in 2002, that's evidence. But what, 3 more free throws by the Cavs? Even fouls? C'mon. You Golden State nut riders have had excuses in the chamber all playoffs.

Meanwhile, what I saw was a monster all-time great exerting his will over a team, with all-around performances that are few and far between in NBA history. GS is a cocky as hell, run up the score and dance around type of team, and they all looked like little kids that just got scolded these last 2 games. LeBron has taken their spirit, and frankly the Dubs seem shook.

Will it continue? who knows, consistency in his mindset has always been his downfall. he's gotta bring that same attitude Sunday.

 

[cdwright40]

Lot of butthurt Heat fans in this thread.

And the ref argument - hahaha. There's awful calls each game for each team. When it's the Lakers shooting 18 more free throws than the Kings in the 4th in 2002, that's evidence. But what, 3 more free throws by the Cavs? Even fouls? C'mon. You Golden State nut riders have had excuses in the chamber all playoffs.

Meanwhile, what I saw was a monster all-time great exerting his will over a team, with all-around performances that are few and far between in NBA history. GS is a cocky as hell, run up the score and dance around type of team, and they all looked like little kids that just got scolded these last 2 games. LeBron has taken their spirit, and frankly the Dubs seem shook.

Will it continue? who knows, consistency in his mindset has always been his downfall. he's gotta bring that same attitude Sunday.

Dude I am not even really a big Lebron guy but what he has done has been nothing short of amazing. The dude just said to the team get on my back down 3-1 against arguably the best team in league history with 73 reg season wins.

I was watching some coverage on NBATV and Jefferson was saying that Lebron told the team after being down 3-1 that " look put it all on me. Get on my back. Follow me and let me worry about the results". They said they never saw anything like that. It was just amazing. They say he is the hardest worker and the best player and they love playing with him because he is a leader. Makes no excuses and makes an effort to get to know them on an individual basis. He said that Lebron told him personally he knows how much a championship means to him and he isn't going to let him down as far as his effort and commitment. That's all you can do.

This is what we need at Miami. Dudes that just say look. Put it all on me. Everyone expects us to fold but we are going to war. Going in to win with no lame excuses.

I like GS but you are right. They are cocky and it caught up to them just like it has caught up to some of our greatest Miami teams in history. We should have about 9 national championships at Miami but sometimes you can be too cocky. That can hurt you and then it is just excuses.

 

[JTH007]

If LeLooser can't win this year with all of his hand picked talent around him next year he will be begging for Durant. LeLooser needs a team of all stars around him to win as usual.

 

[cwebbjb]

yeah, not many smirking comments on if they'd beat the Showtime Lakers anymore.

There were countless people dumping all over LB after Game 4 (as there should've been)

But after 41-41, it's Draymond got suspended - conspiracy! Curry fouls out- conspiracy! LMAO
it's tough for people to give LeBron his due, and I get it. you can't say anything his last 2 games besides greatness, though

 

[cwebbjb]

If LeLooser can't win this year with all of his hand picked talent around him next year he will be begging for Durant. LeLooser needs a team of all stars around him to win as usual.

this argument is so dumb it's laughable.

disagree w the way he's assembled teams, ok, that's fair. I don't care about it, but I'm capable of rational thinking an seeing the other side.

But Curry didn't have Klay? Duncan didn't have Parker, Ginobli, Robinson, Leonard over the years? MJ didn't have Scottie? Shaquille, Kobe?
You get my point. you can't win an NBA title without other elite and/or all stars level players around you.

 

[Seanloc1]

Dude I am not even really a big Lebron guy but what he has done has been nothing short of amazing. The dude just said to the team get on my back down 3-1 against arguably the best team in league history with 73 reg season wins.

I was watching some coverage on NBATV and Jefferson was saying that Lebron told the team after being down 3-1 that " look put it all on me. Get on my back. Follow me and let me worry about the results". They said they never saw anything like that. It was just amazing. They say he is the hardest worker and the best player and they love playing with him because he is a leader. Makes no excuses and makes an effort to get to know them on an individual basis. He said that Lebron told him personally he knows how much a championship means to him and he isn't going to let him down as far as his effort and commitment. That's all you can do.

This is what we need at Miami. Dudes that just say look. Put it all on me. Everyone expects us to fold but we are going to war. Going in to win with no lame excuses.

I like GS but you are right. They are cocky and it caught up to them just like it has caught up to some of our greatest Miami teams in history. We should have about 9 national championships at Miami but sometimes you can be too cocky. That can hurt you and then it is just excuses.

This is the hypocrisy of it all to me GS is nowhere near the greatest team in history bro they just happen to have broken a record, it's amazing how people will pump something up to make Lebron look good. They are a good team with a couple great shooters. I'll argue that the Sixers who lost 1 game in the playoffs were one of the greatest teams ever along with a few Bulls lakers and Celtics teams. And Lebrons cockiness hasn't gotten him in trouble? This is his 8th finals been in the league 13 seasons and this is now just his mindset? They should never have been down 3-1 to this team. That's the problem with a guy of his abilities he stands around too much but it's ok because he's talented and people and the media will make excuses for him. The best player on the planet plays like it or gives the effort like it ALL THE TIME. He could've been dominating these guys they have no one to guard him. Make no mistake in these last 2 games he's played lights out no doubt but it's demanded that the best player on the planet perform or dominate in game 7 because he can and if he does they win if his stat line is 25 10 and 10 they won't win and people will say he had a triple double but if you look at those # 's you would know he could've done so much more.

 

[Seanloc1]

this argument is so dumb it's laughable.

disagree w the way he's assembled teams, ok, that's fair. I don't care about it, but I'm capable of rational thinking an seeing the other side.

But Curry didn't have Klay? Duncan didn't have Parker, Ginobli, Robinson, Leonard over the years? MJ didn't have Scottie? Shaquille, Kobe?
You get my point. you can't win an NBA title without other elite and/or all stars level players around you.

You are right but which one of those teams did the players collude to make a super team?

 

[cwebbjb]

You are right but which one of those teams did the players collude to make a super team?

I did say above that I understand that argument. I never loved him doing that, but I didn't hate it or it make me hate him, either. But I think it's a fair critique, or at least I get the rationale behind the critique, if that makes any sense.

I just feel it's the nature of the NBA in the 2010s. Look at Aldridge jumping ship last year to San Antonio, and they're one of the biggest supposed pursuers of KD this year. Being able to build mostly through the draft like GS has done requires an incredible amount of luck, dumb teams picking in the draft before them and a great front office. It's very rare. I commend GS for that, absolutely.

 

[Seanloc1]

I did say above that I understand that argument. I never loved him doing that, but I didn't hate it or it make me hate him, either. But I think it's a fair critique, or at least I get the rationale behind the critique, if that makes any sense.

I just feel it's the nature of the NBA in the 2010s. Look at Aldridge jumping ship last year to San Antonio, and they're one of the biggest supposed pursuers of KD this year. Being able to build mostly through the draft like GS has done requires an incredible amount of luck, dumb teams picking in the draft before them and a great front office. It's very rare. I commend GS for that, absolutely.

Yeah Aldridge is running too I wonder what they could've done with McColombs emergence. Word was he left because he felt he felt he was playing second fiddle to Lillard. This NBA is totally upside down.

 

[cwebbjb]

Yeah Aldridge is running too I wonder what they could've done with McColombs emergence. Word was he left because he felt he felt he was playing second fiddle to Lillard. This NBA is totally upside down.

Yep. seeing the Blazers take that step forward this year was almost tougher to watch, knowing LMA could've been on the team. I could see that re: Dame. He's like a God to blazer fans.