I’m shaking my head right now...

[normsmith]

It's a false and leftist statement designed to discount my opinion. Whether or not I have experienced racial profiling is totally irrelevant. And I don't intend to prove my bona fides to you.
You support arson and tearing things up. Arson is inherently dangerous, but you don't care. You just want violence. You cannot even wait for the trial. How pathetic!
Enjoy the violence against your fellow Americans.

When did you read where I said I support arson and tearing things up in fact I said looting and tearing shit up isn't cool? Stop!!!! How do you know that I'm a left winger? Stop again!!!! I was simply saying why rioting occurs and quoting Dr. King's who was synonymous for non violence assertion on the issue. He made that statement over 50 years ago and it still rings true. I'm not going allow to make your reading comprehension or lack thereof my problem. I'll bet George Floyd’s family wishes he had an opportunity to be tried for passing a counterfeit 20 dollar bill rather than waiting on a second autopsy then planning his funeral and internment. Typical of folks of your ilk to bemoan rioting rather than the system that creates the reason people are rioting in the first place.

 

[lima23]

When did you read where I said I support arson and tearing things up in fact I said looting and tearing shit up isn't cool? Stop!!!! How do you know that I'm a left winger? Stop again!!!! I was simply saying why rioting occurs and quoting Dr. King's who was synonymous for non violence assertion on the issue. He made that statement over 50 years ago and it still rings true. I'm not going allow to make your reading comprehension or lack thereof my problem. I'll bet George Floyd’s family wishes he had an opportunity to be tried for passing a counterfeit 20 dollar bill rather than waiting on a second autopsy then planning his funeral and internment. Typical of folks of your ilk to bemoan rioting rather than the system that creates the reason people are rioting in the first place.

Here is what you wrote. "I don't condone tearing shit up especially your own city"
So an honest assessment of your poorly written sentence would be that it's OK to riot against Americans in other cities. BTW, I do not intend to get into personal backgrounds. But, if you have seen ten percent of the violence that I have, I would be surprised.
The arrest has been made. More are coming. Wait for the trial unless you want to talk and foster violence outside of the cities where our fellow Americans are put into jeopardy. That's classic left wing behavior.

 

[lima23]

The numbers do not bear you out

When did you read where I said I support arson and tearing things up in fact I said looting and tearing shit up isn't cool? Stop!!!! How do you know that I'm a left winger? Stop again!!!! I was simply saying why rioting occurs and quoting Dr. King's who was synonymous for non violence assertion on the issue. He made that statement over 50 years ago and it still rings true. I'm not going allow to make your reading comprehension or lack thereof my problem. I'll bet George Floyd’s family wishes he had an opportunity to be tried for passing a counterfeit 20 dollar bill rather than waiting on a second autopsy then planning his funeral and internment. Typical of folks of your ilk to bemoan rioting rather than the system that creates the reason people are rioting in the first place.

The numbers do not bear you out. In fact they indicate just the opposite. https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

 

[lima23]

When did you read where I said I support arson and tearing things up in fact I said looting and tearing shit up isn't cool? Stop!!!! How do you know that I'm a left winger? Stop again!!!! I was simply saying why rioting occurs and quoting Dr. King's who was synonymous for non violence assertion on the issue. He made that statement over 50 years ago and it still rings true. I'm not going allow to make your reading comprehension or lack thereof my problem. I'll bet George Floyd’s family wishes he had an opportunity to be tried for passing a counterfeit 20 dollar bill rather than waiting on a second autopsy then planning his funeral and internment. Typical of folks of your ilk to bemoan rioting rather than the system that creates the reason people are rioting in the first place.

More inconvenient numbers for you. https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers
The money quote:
The number of black people who killed whites and the number of whites who killed blacks climbed to levels not seen since 2008, accounting last year for their largest percentages of U.S. homicides of black and white victims since at least the start of the century, according to the crime data.

The statistics show that the 500 killings of white people attributed to blacks last year were the most since black perpetrators were determined to be responsible for the homicides of 504 white people nationwide in 2008. Last year's total was up 12 percent from the 446 recorded in 2014 and 22 percent from the 409 seen in 2013, a year that saw the lowest total this century and one that capped seven years of general declines in black-on-white homicides. Prior to that, 2006 saw the most black-on-white killings since 2001, with 573.

The 229 black lives taken by white killers last year, however, marked an even larger leap from 2014, jumping more than 22 percent from the 187 black victims killed by whites that year, which was the second-lowest total since 2001. The tally was last exceeded in 2008, when 230 blacks were slain by whites. The highest total in the last 15 years came in 2007, when 245 black people were killed by whites.

 

[normsmith]

Here is what you wrote. "I don't condone tearing shit up especially your own city"
So an honest assessment of your poorly written sentence would be that it's OK to riot against Americans in other cities. BTW, I do not intend to get into personal backgrounds. But, if you have seen ten percent of the violence that I have, I would be surprised.
The arrest has been made. More are coming. Wait for the trial unless you want to talk and foster violence outside of the cities where our fellow Americans are put into jeopardy. That's classic left wing behavior.

You extrapolating that I ever said or implied that rioting in ANY city is ok is a stretch and I'm being generous. You basically said I think it's perfectly fine to go to another city and tear someone else's shit up which I didn't say implicitly or explicitly.. Once again your interpretation of what I said is not my problem. Rioting can be and often is dangerous for all concerned for police and citizens alike. I'm giving a snapshot as to WHY it happen. Without the benefit of knowing each others background, your statement about me seeing 10 percent of the violence you've witnessed is uninformed.

 

[lima23]

You extrapolating that I ever said or implied that rioting in ANY city is ok is a stretch and I'm being generous. You basically said I think it's perfectly fine to go to another city and tear someone else's shit up which I didn't say implicitly or explicitly.. Once again your interpretation of what I said is not my problem. Rioting can be and often is dangerous for all concerned for police and citizens alike. I'm giving a snapshot as to WHY it happen. Without the benefit of knowing each others background, your statement about me seeing 10 percent of the violence you've witnessed is uninformed.

Combat vet?

 

[lima23]

You extrapolating that I ever said or implied that rioting in ANY city is ok is a stretch and I'm being generous. You basically said I think it's perfectly fine to go to another city and tear someone else's shit up which I didn't say implicitly or explicitly.. Once again your interpretation of what I said is not my problem. Rioting can be and often is dangerous for all concerned for police and citizens alike. I'm giving a snapshot as to WHY it happen. Without the benefit of knowing each others background, your statement about me seeing 10 percent of the violence you've witnessed is uninformed.

It's hard to guess what it is that you are writing as your writing is so poor.
BTW you did not address the numbers I posted immediately above your last post. I don't blame you. Those numbers belie your ridiculous statements.

 

[lima23]

When did you read where I said I support arson and tearing things up in fact I said looting and tearing shit up isn't cool? Stop!!!! How do you know that I'm a left winger? Stop again!!!! I was simply saying why rioting occurs and quoting Dr. King's who was synonymous for non violence assertion on the issue. He made that statement over 50 years ago and it still rings true. I'm not going allow to make your reading comprehension or lack thereof my problem. I'll bet George Floyd’s family wishes he had an opportunity to be tried for passing a counterfeit 20 dollar bill rather than waiting on a second autopsy then planning his funeral and internment. Typical of folks of your ilk to bemoan rioting rather than the system that creates the reason people are rioting in the first place.

Here you are using a classic leftist trick of bringing in an authority to tangentially support rioting. So when they broke into all of those stores and looted them, even the fancy stores located in the Bayshore Plaza, they were condemning a system of injustice? Just about all of those stores were owned by corporations. They surely are insured. But what about the lower class workers who will be laid off. Are they perpetrators of the system of injustice as well? What a joke!

"Although looting is not cool, I didn't condemn the rioting because a guy you may have heard of by the name of Dr. Martin Luther King once said that rioting is caused by a system of injustice and is the language of the unheard which is a concept that you probably don't comprehend."

 

[normsmith]

Combat vet?

Yes I am a veteran. 20 years U.S. Navy. Gulf War veteran and you?

 

[normsmith]

Here you are using a classic leftist trick of bringing in an authority to tangentially support rioting. So when they broke into all of those stores and looted them, even the fancy stores located in the Bayshore Plaza, they were condemning a system of injustice? Just about all of those stores were owned by corporations. They surely are insured. But what about the lower class workers who will be laid off. Are they perpetrators of the system of injustice as well? What a joke!

"Although looting is not cool, I didn't condemn the rioting because a guy you may have heard of by the name of Dr. Martin Luther King once said that rioting is caused by a system of injustice and is the language of the unheard which is a concept that you probably don't comprehend."

Man I don't know how many ways I can say it but once again and from the cheap seats, I WAS SAYING WHY IT IS HAPPENING AND NOT CONDONING IT supported by Dr. King's assertion as to why it's happening and has been throughout history. Breaking into those stores were opportunistic criminals taking advantage of the situation.

 

[lima23]

Yes I am a veteran. 20 years U.S. Navy. Gulf War veteran.

Platoon leader Vietnam located 400 miles north of Saigon in I Corps. Blacks in my unit totally supported me. In fact I had a couple of white soldiers who would give me some problems. The Black guy who was closest to me and had a heavy martial arts background would visit them and tell them if they kept giving me grief he would personally wring their neck like a chicken.
I had black soldiers who I trained in the US take in country R and Rs to come to my unit to see me.
Tell you what, I will raise you to 20 percent.

 

[lima23]

Man I don't know how many ways I can say it but once again and from the cheap seats, I WAS SAYING WHY IT IS HAPPENING AND NOT CONDONING IT supported by Dr. King's assertion as to why it's happening and has been throughout history. Breaking into those stores were opportunistic criminals taking advantage of the situation.

It's happening because people are violent and evil. If the controls come off they revert to their natural state. And by the way, a person is evil when they spend a significant part of their time calculating how to do damage to another person.

 

[lima23]

As I recall them the 68 riots were not that bad. They did get Nixon elected though.
The really bad riots were the 65 and 67 riots. Lots of shootings. Lots of murders.

 

[normsmith]

Platoon leader Vietnam located 400 miles north of Saigon in I Corps. Blacks in my unit totally supported me. In fact I had a couple of white soldiers who would give me some problems. The Black guy who was closest to me and had a heavy martial arts background would visit them and tell them if they kept giving me grief he would personally wring their neck like a chicken.
I had black soldiers who I trained in the US take in country R and Rs to come to my unit to see me.
Tell you what, I will raise you to 20 percent.

Thank you for your service sir and yes you've seen more battlefield injuries and death than me but we're talking about police brutality and not being a combat vet although the psychological effects with PTSD are more severe than the average civilian will experience. You've got me beat on that which is a distinction that you don't necessarily enjoy because you probably watched some of your fellow servicemembers die.

 

[normsmith]

It's happening because people are violent and evil. If the controls come off they revert to their natural state. And by the way, a person is evil when they spend a significant part of their time calculating how to do damage to another person.

No argument from me there.

 

[lima23]

Thank you for your service sir and yes you've seen more battlefield injuries and death than me but we're talking about police brutality and not being a combat vet although the psychological effects with PTSD are more severe than the average civilian will experience. You've got me beat on that which is a distinction that you don't necessarily enjoy because you probably watched some of your fellow servicemembers die.

Yes I did. And thank you for that.

 

[normsmith]

It's hard to guess what it is that you are writing as your writing is so poor.
BTW you did not address the numbers I posted immediately above your last post. I don't blame you. Those numbers belie your ridiculous statements.

The numbers you referenced were about street crime and I saw similar numbers on a different site. The fact is that most violent crimes happen to and are committed by people who are closest to them I.E. whites hurting, killing other whites, blacks against blacks and so forth. This thread was about the preliminary autopsy findings for George Floyd.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls

 

[normsmith]

Yes I did. And thank you for that.

I've seen my fair share of death in the Navy. Kids getting blown off the ship, helicopters and airplanes going down with no survivors, suicides, servicemembers being murdered in the Philippines but not as much as being down range in Vietnam like you.

 

[lima23]

I've seen my fair share of death in the Navy. Kids getting blown off the ship, helicopters and airplanes going down with no survivors, suicides, servicemembers being murdered in the Philippines but not as much as being down range in Vietnam like you.

81 mm mortar and tac air dropping naplam is what kept me alive. And my men were really good when we got into trouble.
Day to day some of them would give me grief, but when the shit hit the fan, they were great shots and natural born killers. We had to carry out one of my guys, Jessie, back to base camp so that he could DEROS. He wanted to stay.

 

[lima23]

I thought about what I would have done if my people starting taking villager's property as well as harming villagers. I was not a great leader, but I was a leader and I, unlike these Democratic governors, took my job seriously.
First I would have told them to stop. And, if they didn't I would enlist the help of my sergeants to stop it. But, if that had not worked I would have shot the ones who were looting and hurting the villagers.
Maybe they would have shot me. I did have a Mexican standoff one time with one of them when I had just been in country for a week. BTW, he was white and he was the platoon bully. I pulled him off another person whom he was mercilessly beating up while the victim was on the ground.
The idea of being shot would not have deterred me from doing what I had to do to stop unjustified violence. Looting and arson is never justified... especially when the perpetrator has been arrested and charged. It's just another Democratic scam.
The villagers were not my people. But, I would not have tolerated looting and violence against them. The governors who are allowing these riots to take place are not leaders. They are not protecting their own people. Most of them are Democrats. No wonder they allow this to happen.

 

[advarkas]

I don't see how you could trust any report from the Minneapolis medical examiner.

The victim's attorney hired an independent expert to determine cause of death, and understandbly so.

 

[miamimike]

In the video taken by a female bystander she screamed at the cops to just put him in the car and the cop replied we tried. There's a segment of video from the time they escorted him to the wall and then they're on the ground. That segment will probably be on bodycam and show a struggle at some point. I could br totally off but that's my assumption based on the video from the female bystander.

Like I said before that doesn't excuse the bullsh-t that officer was doing but there's a little more there then just them throwing him to the ground and killing him.

Thanks for responding without being a wiseass like MutinousCane!

 

[majus12]

I don't see how you could trust any report from the Minneapolis medical examiner.

I dont see how you can trust any media outlet anymore. They are creating news NOT reporting on it.
Crazy times.
I was always taught power was more important than wealth.
Media today proves exactly that.
We have young and dumb. 35 yr olds on down that are todays reporters.
Spoiled nobodies, spouting their personal opinions on us.
Fuk them and anyone who simply believes what they are told
Pffffft
Pfffffft
Pffffffffffffffft

 

[normsmith]

So all of that because they allegedly knew each other. Solid evidence... nobody is denying that chauvin is a giant pos. NOBODY!!! That's a huge assumption and stretch to make a connection ut was race related since they knew each other. Maybe Chauvin knew him and dodnt like him. Maybe that was motivation for the knee in the nec . But when not one but two autopsys different medical examiners find the same thing, what do you think the truth is?

Well, well, well. You falsely claimed that both the Heppenin County Coroner and Dr. Michael Baden both reached the same conclusion as to George Floyd’s cause of death. I'll be goddamned if Dr. Michael just announced TODAY that the cause of death was asphyxiation due to neck and back compression. Imagine that so you either didn't know what you were talking or you flat out lied.

 

[advarkas]

Initial charge was manslaughter. Based on the Floyd family's doctor reaching the conclusion that the cause of death was asphyxiation due to neck and back compression, there has to be serious consideration to a first degree murder charge. I think he should be charged with murder one, murder 2, and manslaughter. Put all three on the table, let the jury decide.

 

[CashvilleCane1]

Well, well, well. You falsely claimed that both the Heppenin County Coroner and Dr. Michael Baden both reached the same conclusion as to George Floyd’s cause of death. I'll be goddamned if Dr. Michael just announced TODAY that the cause of death was asphyxiation due to neck and back compression. Imagine that so you either didn't know what you were talking or you flat out lied.

Well in all fairness I posted a link to the article that stated that. I was wrong and I will take the heat for it unlike some others around here who disappear for a few days and then lie about it.

 

[CashvilleCane1]

Initial charge was manslaughter. Based on the Floyd family's doctor reaching the conclusion that the cause of death was asphyxiation due to neck and back compression, there has to be serious consideration to a first degree murder charge. I think he should be charged with murder one, murder 2, and manslaughter. Put all three on the table, let the jury decide.

Agreed!!!

 

[normsmith]

Well in all fairness I posted a link to the article that stated that. I was wrong and I will take the heat for it unlike some others around here who disappear for a few days and then lie about it.

You're a stand up dude Cash and I like you. I take my hat off to you for manning up and admitting that you were wrong. It shows alot character on your part. Alot of people don't have sense enough or the humility to do that.

 

[normsmith]

Initial charge was manslaughter. Based on the Floyd family's doctor reaching the conclusion that the cause of death was asphyxiation due to neck and back compression, there has to be serious consideration to a first degree murder charge. I think he should be charged with murder one, murder 2, and manslaughter. Put all three on the table, let the jury decide.

What about the element or absence of premeditation for first degree murder?

 

[CashvilleCane1]

What about the element or absence of premeditation for first degree murder?

I’m literally so confused as to how one M.E. can say there was no asphyxiation and then the other turn around and say there was. That’s a huge difference in findings. Here are the initial preliminary findings:

 

[normsmith]

I’m literally so confused as to how one M.E. can say there was no asphyxiation and then the other turn around and say there was. That’s a huge difference in findings. Here are the initial preliminary findings:

View embedded media

Yeah I saw that but Dr. Baden that he wished he had Mr. Floyd’s could coronary arteries and went on to say that he was in good health.

 

[lima23]

Well in all fairness I posted a link to the article that stated that. I was wrong and I will take the heat for it unlike some others around here who disappear for a few days and then lie about it.

That is a stand up response. It really does not make any difference: heart attack, strangulation ... he died because of a sadistic bully. Now what about the rioters who have already killed innocents and destroyed cities. We need the policemen now to help us stop this senseless violence. And, sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. It's time for the State to understand that only violence will stop these pigs.

 

[lima23]

Yeah I saw that but Dr. Baden that he wished he had Mr. Floyd’s could coronary arteries and went on to say that he was in good health.

Dr. Baden will say whatever he is paid to say. No matter ... the death was caused by the perp. Let's move on to the trial.

 

[lima23]

What about the element or absence of premeditation for first degree murder?

I do not practice criminal law. But, premeditation can occur while the crime is going on, e.g. I fire my pistol into you once. I then take aim and fire a second time killing you. Here the guy was on top for eight minutes hearing the victim say I can't breathe. No one here is saying that the cop did the right thing. Now it's time for a trial. It's time that leftists stop destroying this country with their riots.

 

[CashvilleCane1]

I do not practice criminal law. But, premeditation can occur while the crime is going on, e.g. I fire my pistol into you once. I then take aim and fire a second time killing you. Here the guy was on top for eight minutes hearing the victim say I can't breathe. No one here is saying that the cop did the right thing. Now it's time for a trial. It's time that leftists stop destroying this country with their riots.

Valid points

 

[grbcane]

What about the element or absence of premeditation for first degree murder?

Im definitely no expert on the law, but I think eight to nine minutes is enough time for premeditation.

 

[e_cushing]

I didn't make anything personal. Did I call you any names? If me saying that you've probably never experienced discrimination or racial profiling is personal then you're a little sensitive. If you are white my statement is true not personal.

Based on where the thread is at you gents seem to have settled your differences which is great.

I can’t speak for white people but I think if you are going to be fair you would probably agree that the state of race relations are a bit better than they were in the 50s right?

whenever an asshole makes a bad move, like chauvin in this case, there is a desire to call it something and the word racist fits perfectly. But when discussing cops, like any segment of our society, the vast majority are neutral to good people while the bad cops are a small minority. Everyone hates bad cops. Bad cops do f’d up shit to people of all races.

Stats like these are not discussed very often because there isn’t a convenient word like racism to encapsulate it and IMO most importantly it doesn’t fit a politically motivated main stream media narrative.

I don’t think this was a race issue. I think it was a shitty cop issue.

 

[normsmith]

Based on where the thread is at you gents seem to have settled your differences which is great.

I can’t speak for white people but I think if you are going to be fair you would probably agree that the state of race relations are a bit better than they were in the 50s right?

whenever an asshole makes a bad move, like chauvin in this case, there is a desire to call it something and the word racist fits perfectly. But when discussing cops, like any segment of our society, the vast majority are neutral to good people while the bad cops are a small minority. Everyone hates bad cops. Bad cops do f’d up shit to people of all races.

View embedded media

Stats like these are not discussed very often because there isn’t a convenient word like racism to encapsulate it and IMO most importantly it doesn’t fit a politically motivated main stream media narrative.

I don’t think this was a race issue. I think it was a shitty cop issue.

I'd be interested to see this on a per capita basis. Obviously more white people are arrested than black people because there more of them.

 

[BreakingCane]

I'd be interested to see this on a per capita basis. Obviously more white people are arrested than black people because there more of them.

He said per every 10k arrested, so it is normalized. Apples to apples.

 

[e_cushing]

I'd be interested to see this on a per capita basis. Obviously more white people are arrested than black people because there more of them.

As rob said this takes numbers into account. The number of unarmed people killed by law enforcement is regularly 3+ to 1 white Vs AA.

There have been some real touching scenes of protest, peaceful protest. I’ve seen protesters hugging cops of different races etc. the right to peacefully protest is important to the American way of life.

the destruction of property, looting, and acts of violence only hurt race relations, hurt the economy, hurt individual people who lose their life’s work etc. anyone engaged in this shit needs to be put down arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.