I want to know what is your problem with the WALL liberals?

[HJCane]

We know open borders are a magnet for drug smuggling, human / sex trafficking, child smuggling, and acts as an incentive to make the long very dangerous journey to try to enter America illegally. How can we have an immigration policy without securing the border? The WALL is not just a wall. It is also where we are attaching technology to detect movements and other assistance to Border Patrol. We know Border patrol and the states along the border want additional protections. We know Border patrol has requested the help. We know it won't be 100% effective but should help quite a bit. So what's your problem? Could it be you don't like it because Trump wanted it?

What is your problem with the WALL lefty's?

 

[HJCane]

Illegal border crossings rise for sixth straight month

U.S. border authorities stopped people entering the country illegally from Mexico more than 69,000 times in October, the sixth straight monthly increase and the highest level since July 2019.

apnews.com

 

[CANE1983]

Not a moral problem. It just doesn’t work. I’d rather spend money on personnel (create jobs) or technology to attack the problem. There are obviously differing opinions but a lot of the top officials in border enforcement feel the money could be better spent on the aforementioned assets than on a wall. What good does a wall do when people can climb over or dig under or even better use a drone. I think the wall is a basic attempt to fix a complex problem.

 

[cortez55403]

The Wall is Trump’s simplistic physical symbol of securing our borders against Brown people. Can a physical barrier play a role in border security? Sure. Is it the be all and end all of “securing our borders”? Of course not.

Trump elevated the Wall into that second, miraculous cure category. Gotta move off of that.

‘And, most illegal immigration comes in the form of people who arrive at airports and overstay their visas (tourist/work/student). Trump didn’t do a damn thing to stop this illegal immigration. No sex or voter appeal in visa-tracking technology.

 

[CashvilleCane1]

Not a moral problem. It just doesn’t work. I’d rather spend money on personnel (create jobs) or technology to attack the problem. There are obviously differing opinions but a lot of the top officials in border enforcement feel the money could be better spent on the aforementioned assets than on a wall. What good does a wall do when people can climb over or dig under or even better use a drone. I think the wall is a basic attempt to fix a complex problem.

If you look at the numbers, it reduced many numbers of illegal entries and obviously drug confiscation in the areas it was installed. You wouldn’t get the full effect until it was completely done. Guess we will have to wait four more years to get it finished. 😂

 

[CashvilleCane1]

The Wall is Trump’s simplistic physical symbol of securing our borders against Brown people. Can a physical barrier play a role in border security? Sure. Is it the be all and end all of “securing our borders”? Of course not.

Trump elevated the Wall into that second, miraculous cure category. Gotta move off of that.

‘And, most illegal immigration comes in the form of people who arrive at airports and overstay their visas (tourist/work/student). Trump didn’t do a damn thing to stop this illegal immigration. No sex or voter appeal in visa-tracking technology.

How do you prevent overstays in visa’s? Come on lmao. That’s quite seriously one of the most out of touch things you’ve ever written. You stop what you can stop so you can divert resources to other areas. We will never know now since our southern boarder is no longer secure and those policies will be an after thought. America Second is the new Biden motto

 

[CaneBandit]

How do you prevent overstays in visa’s? Come on lmao. That’s quite seriously one of the most out of touch things you’ve ever written. You stop what you can stop so you can divert resources to other areas. We will never know now since our southern boarder is no longer secure and those policies will be an after thought. America Second is the new Biden motto

Sadly

 

[ellu]

How much "fencing" and "wall" was new and not refurbished? Honest question. I agree with refurbishing where effective and adding where needed. A wall that stretches the entire southern border with big beautiful doors that Mexico is going to pay for was a campaign lie that we no longer have to live. The same folks that bemoan "you can keep your doctor" have no problem with "and Mexico is going to pay for it" go figure.

 

[CashvilleCane1]

How much "fencing" and "wall" was new and not refurbished? Honest question. I agree with refurbishing where effective and adding where needed. A wall that stretches the entire southern border with big beautiful doors that Mexico is going to pay for was a campaign lie that we no longer have to live. The same folks that bemoan "you can keep your doctor" have no problem with "and Mexico is going to pay for it" go figure.

I think they installed around 358 miles of new wall & refurbished the existing 650ish miles. They don’t do a very good job of delineating primary & secondary walls in the article.

Trump wall: How much has he actually built?

What happened to President Trump's long-promised wall? How much of it got built? And how effective has it been?

www.google.com

 

[Raoul2]

We know open borders are a magnet for drug smuggling, human / sex trafficking, child smuggling, and acts as an incentive to make the long very dangerous journey to try to enter America illegally. How can we have an immigration policy without securing the border? The WALL is not just a wall. It is also where we are attaching technology to detect movements and other assistance to Border Patrol. We know Border patrol and the states along the border want additional protections. We know Border patrol has requested the help. We know it won't be 100% effective but should help quite a bit. So what's your problem? Could it be you don't like it because Trump wanted it?

What is your problem with the WALL lefty's?

Not a lefty, but I think we've exhausted every angle covering the racist monument in other threads haven't we.

 

[HJCane]

Not a moral problem. It just doesn’t work. I’d rather spend money on personnel (create jobs) or technology to attack the problem. There are obviously differing opinions but a lot of the top officials in border enforcement feel the money could be better spent on the aforementioned assets than on a wall. What good does a wall do when people can climb over or dig under or even better use a drone. I think the wall is a basic attempt to fix a complex problem.

The wall is very high most people would not have the balls to climb a ladder that tall. Border patrol wants the wall and the wall is where the technology assists and is attached to.

 

[Raoul2]

The wall is very high most people would not have the balls to climb a ladder that tall. Border patrol wants the wall and the wall is where the technology assists and is attached to.

If the wall didn't happen under Trump administration and a Republican congress for the first two years, then it certainly won't be happening under Biden and a Dem Congress. The reasons why have been addressed in countless previous threads.

 

[HJCane]

How much "fencing" and "wall" was new and not refurbished? Honest question. I agree with refurbishing where effective and adding where needed. A wall that stretches the entire southern border with big beautiful doors that Mexico is going to pay for was a campaign lie that we no longer have to live. The same folks that bemoan "you can keep your doctor" have no problem with "and Mexico is going to pay for it" go figure.

A non answer if I ever read one. Take pay out of it then answer the questions I posed. Namely what is the problem with the WALL as 1 measure of securing our southern border? Note I did not say your problem because I’m asking you a question and do not know if you have an issue with it.

 

[HJCane]

If the wall didn't happen under Trump administration and a Republican congress for the first two years, then it certainly won't be happening under Biden and a Dem Congress. The reasons why have been addressed in countless previous threads.

A non answer thanks for nothing

 

[Raoul2]

A non answer thanks for nothing

You and I recently had an exchange about the wall where much of this was addressed.

 

[claboo]

Not a Lib either but I agree with the poster who stated the wall was simply a campaign lie told to the Right, to tap into those racial bias's of many of them. Truth be told, Trump employs as many illegal immigrants at his various business locations/buildings under construction, as any other company in the US profiting from their "cheap" labor.

That lie was told to tap into the fears of many Rep's, to secure votes. If Trump was THAT concerned about the presence of illegals in the US, he'd stop providing them employment for pennies on the dollar at his construction sites.

I'm from the NY/NJ area, seen it with my own eyes

 

[cdwright40]

There is virtually zero return on investment. There just isn't much value in it. Everyone that understands how border control works can explain this fact to you. This is nothing more than a political football. The money would be better invested on a wide range of other important immigration initiatives.

Standing in front of people pounding your chest about Mexico paying for a wall without negotiating this with them is just so juvenile I can't even begin to tell you how silly that was too. Our country doesn't do business that way. Trump just does zero homework ever. He just surrounds himself with people who are yes men. He can't handle people who are strong. Why do you think so many in his administration were "acting".....and not confirmed by congress?

 

[Raoul2]

Not a Lib either but I agree with the poster who stated the wall was simply a campaign lie told to the Right, to tap into those racial bias's of many of them. Truth be told, Trump employs as many illegal immigrants at his various business locations/buildings under construction, as any other company in the US profiting from their "cheap" labor.

That lie was told to tap into the fears of many Rep's, to secure votes. If Trump was THAT concerned about the presence of illegals in the US, he'd stop providing them employment for pennies on the dollar at his construction sites.

I'm from the NY/NJ area, seen it with my own eyes

That's all it was at the end of the day. The entire idea of a wall was merely an idea Roger Stone and Steve Bannon invented to get Trump to start talking about immigration. It was never a serious proposal that was rooted in proper research - it was merely a cultural tool to rile up the xenophobic base Trump was (at the time) seeking to curry favor with.

Joshua Green had good access to Trump insiders, including Sam Nunberg, who worked with Stone. “Roger Stone and I came up with the idea of ‘the Wall,’ and we talked to Steve [Bannon] about it,” according to Nunberg. “It was to make sure he [Trump] talked about immigration.”

The concept of the Wall did not click right away with the candidate. “Initially, Trump seemed indifferent to the idea,” writes Green. “But in January 2015, he tried it out at the Iowa Freedom Summit, a presidential cattle call put on by David Bossie’s group, Citizens United. ‘One of his pledges was, ‘I will build a Wall,’ and the place just went nuts,’ said Nunberg. Warming to the concept, Trump waited a beat and then added a flourish that brought down the house. ‘Nobody,’ he said, ‘builds like Trump.’”

Where The Idea For Donald Trump's Wall Came From

The idea for building a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border came from political consultants seeking to keep Donald Trump’s mind focused.

www.forbes.com

Trump is a master manipulator of emotions and quickly figured out that he could leverage the xenophobic anxiety of the far right to help build his political base.

So at the end of the day, the wall was little more than a cynical idea specifically designed to appeal to the racist, xenophobic anxieties of right wing voters.

 

[MungoGungo]

Border security and the desire to curb ILLEGAL immigration is not racist or xenophobic.

 

[Raoul2]

Border security and the desire to curb ILLEGAL immigration is not racist or xenophobic.

It is when its been repeatedly demonstrated most illegals arrive by plane and overstay their visas. And yet there's no attention being paid to visa overstays. Hmmmmm..... I wonder why.

 

[MungoGungo]

It is when its been repeatedly demonstrated most illegals arrive by plane and overstay their visas. And yet there's no attention being paid to visa overstays. Hmmmmm..... I wonder why.

You are to far gone. No sense talking.

 

[newnangacane]

Did Mexico pay for it?????Another Trump talking point. The Bush family never asked for it Doesn't work

 

[Raoul2]

You are to far gone. No sense talking.

Facts don't care about feelings.

 

[MungoGungo]

So we just shouldn't care about border crossings.... I'm assuming those are just the known cases. Turn a blind eye to people dying in the desert, human trafficking, etc, etc. You also act like nothing is being done about Visa overstays. Border security has always been an issue for every President. Even your beloved Obama was tough on border security...probably tougher than Trump, Obama might have built more wall than Trump did...but now it's a racist issue. Your not a serious person when you cant admit there is a problem on our borders. Reality doesnt care about your slanted bullshit.

 

[cdwright40]

So we just shouldn't care about border crossings.... I'm assuming those are just the known cases. Turn a blind eye to people dying in the desert, human trafficking, etc, etc. You also act like nothing is being done about Visa overstays. Border security has always been an issue for every President. Even your beloved Obama was tough on border security...probably tougher than Trump, Obama might have built more wall than Trump did...but now it's a racist issue. Your not a serious person when you cant admit there is a problem on our borders.

Your comments address a completely different issue. We are saying that this is not a feasible response to border security. Not that we don't care about it.

 

[Raoul2]

So we just shouldn't care about border crossings.... I'm assuming those are just the known cases. Turn a blind eye to people dying in the desert, human trafficking, etc, etc. You also act like nothing is being done about Visa overstays. Border security has always been an issue for every President. Even your beloved Obama was tough on border security...probably tougher than Trump, Obama might have built more wall than Trump did...but now it's a racist issue. Your not a serious person when you cant admit there is a problem on our borders. Reality doesnt care about your slanted bullshit.

We should care about border crossings, but that doesn't require a ludicrous physical structure stretching thousands of miles. First, come up with a comprehensive plan to deal with visa overstays, then come up with a plan to sure up the border by increasing resources, technology, and manpower to get the job done.

 

[cortez55403]

How do you prevent overstays in visa’s? Come on lmao. That’s quite seriously one of the most out of touch things you’ve ever written. You stop what you can stop so you can divert resources to other areas. We will never know now since our southern boarder is no longer secure and those policies will be an after thought. America Second is the new Biden motto

Cash,

You really should get out more and travel to other countries to see how they monitor and prevent visa overstays.

ex. I travelled to India last year on a tourist visa. My photo was taken upon arrival and my tourist visa verified. I also had to tell the border authorities in writing where I was staying throughout my visit. At each hotel, my passport photo page was copied and kept with my credit card information. The Indian government knew where I was throughout my trip and they knew when I departed the country.

The U.S? No such monitoring during your stay in this country. When your visa expires, do we know where you are or notify you in any way? No. Pitiful 3rd world effort by the U.S.

 

[CashvilleCane1]

Cash,

You really should get out more and travel to other countries to see how they monitor and prevent visa overstays.

ex. I travelled to India last year on a tourist visa. My photo was taken upon arrival and my tourist visa verified. I also had to tell the border authorities in writing where I was staying throughout my visit. At each hotel, my passport photo page was copied and kept with my credit card information. The Indian government knew where I was throughout my trip and they knew when I departed the country.

The U.S? No such monitoring during your stay in this country. When your visa expires, do we know where you are or notify you in any way? No. Pitiful 3rd world effort by the U.S.

Little known fact August 2003 I went Immigration school and was certified and carried ICE Creds since I was assigned as a TLO with JTTF. Immigration policy has changed quite a bit since then but the basic principles have not. People come here all the time and over stay their visas. Yes they are monitored and in most cases are warned and leave. In some cases they hide and evade for quite some time but that is the exception not the rule. The point of the southern boarder wall is to control the flow of who comes in and check and prevent against criminals. You know that and I know that but it’s an inconvenient fact you’re unwilling to admit to because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

 

[cdwright40]

Cash,

You really should get out more and travel to other countries to see how they monitor and prevent visa overstays.

ex. I travelled to India last year on a tourist visa. My photo was taken upon arrival and my tourist visa verified. I also had to tell the border authorities in writing where I was staying throughout my visit. At each hotel, my passport photo page was copied and kept with my credit card information. The Indian government knew where I was throughout my trip and they knew when I departed the country.

The U.S? No such monitoring during your stay in this country. When your visa expires, do we know where you are or notify you in any way? No. Pitiful 3rd world effort by the U.S.

It's things like this we need to invest in. We have to be smart with tax payer dollars and get ROI (return on investment) on these dollars. Monitoring devices were huge with the Obama administration. Rather than spend money on cages and holding facilities. I think Republicans just aren't good at government. Mainly because they don't feel there is much value in it....and think we should govern ourselves and give their tax money back. However, even a poor republican administration historically has done much much better than the last administration. This is historically a bipartisan issue...but this issue is very far right under Trump.

 

[CashvilleCane1]

Cash,

You really should get out more and travel to other countries to see how they monitor and prevent visa overstays.

ex. I travelled to India last year on a tourist visa. My photo was taken upon arrival and my tourist visa verified. I also had to tell the border authorities in writing where I was staying throughout my visit. At each hotel, my passport photo page was copied and kept with my credit card information. The Indian government knew where I was throughout my trip and they knew when I departed the country.

The U.S? No such monitoring during your stay in this country. When your visa expires, do we know where you are or notify you in any way? No. Pitiful 3rd world effort by the U.S.

One more thing, by allowing illegals to come across the boarder at will especially at a time like this with COVID, don’t you think this is an unwise policy decision from Biden? Didn’t he go after Trump for not securing the country fast enough? Why do we have a double standard here? Oh that’s right because he is a republican and not a Democrat. It’s ok now I guess.

 

[krvanness]

We know open borders are a magnet for drug smuggling, human / sex trafficking, child smuggling, and acts as an incentive to make the long very dangerous journey to try to enter America illegally. How can we have an immigration policy without securing the border? The WALL is not just a wall. It is also where we are attaching technology to detect movements and other assistance to Border Patrol. We know Border patrol and the states along the border want additional protections. We know Border patrol has requested the help. We know it won't be 100% effective but should help quite a bit. So what's your problem? Could it be you don't like it because Trump wanted it?

What is your problem with the WALL lefty's?

They see votes, not that they need them with the new mail-in voting. They're a greedy bunch...

 

[HJCane]

Not a Lib either but I agree with the poster who stated the wall was simply a campaign lie told to the Right, to tap into those racial bias's of many of them. Truth be told, Trump employs as many illegal immigrants at his various business locations/buildings under construction, as any other company in the US profiting from their "cheap" labor.

That lie was told to tap into the fears of many Rep's, to secure votes. If Trump was THAT concerned about the presence of illegals in the US, he'd stop providing them employment for pennies on the dollar at his construction sites.

I'm from the NY/NJ area, seen it with my own eyes

Dude you don't know that's not true and the mere fact that you equate hispanic construction workers as illegals is in it's self racist. In NY it is a labor union state and 2 out of every 3 workers must be union. You fell in the trap of the main stream media. I'm painting my condominium building every worker is hispanic are they all illegal? Should I ask to see their citizenship papers?

 

[HJCane]

Amazing how many liberals on here only repeat what CNN says and don't use their own thoughts and common sense. That was one of the points to me starting this thread. It's plain common sense that a barrier erected at the southern border helps secure the border, helps border patrol do their jobs and is safer for them to do their jobs. Parrots all repeating what they're told. Polly want a cracker Polly want a cracker over and over again...........

 

[HJCane]

It's things like this we need to invest in. We have to be smart with tax payer dollars and get ROI (return on investment) on these dollars. Monitoring devices were huge with the Obama administration. Rather than spend money on cages and holding facilities. I think Republicans just aren't good at government. Mainly because they don't feel there is much value in it....and think we should govern ourselves and give their tax money back. However, even a poor republican administration historically has done much much better than the last administration. This is historically a bipartisan issue...but this issue is very far right under Trump.

This CD is a broken failed immigration policy the fault of both parties in Congress and in the White House. Trump just pointed it out and any "fix" must include border security otherwise people and children and sex trafficking and drugs will continue to pour in. At the same time we must work on visa over stays and birther immigration both of which are also problems.

 

[HJCane]

It's things like this we need to invest in. We have to be smart with tax payer dollars and get ROI (return on investment) on these dollars. Monitoring devices were huge with the Obama administration. Rather than spend money on cages and holding facilities. I think Republicans just aren't good at government. Mainly because they don't feel there is much value in it....and think we should govern ourselves and give their tax money back. However, even a poor republican administration historically has done much much better than the last administration. This is historically a bipartisan issue...but this issue is very far right under Trump.

The ROI you mention will come in the form of having to feed, house, clothe, and process thru courts the lower number of people pouring across the border. You do realize there is a huge cost to that right?

 

[HJCane]

Little known fact August 2003 I went Immigration school and was certified and carried ICE Creds since I was assigned as a TLO with JTTF. Immigration policy has changed quite a bit since then but the basic principles have not. People come here all the time and over stay their visas. Yes they are monitored and in most cases are warned and leave. In some cases they hide and evade for quite some time but that is the exception not the rule. The point of the southern boarder wall is to control the flow of who comes in and check and prevent against criminals. You know that and I know that but it’s an inconvenient fact you’re unwilling to admit to because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

not just people, drugs, weapons, criminals, children with fake parents. Cashville it's just common sense for honest people.

 

[HJCane]

Cash,

You really should get out more and travel to other countries to see how they monitor and prevent visa overstays.

ex. I travelled to India last year on a tourist visa. My photo was taken upon arrival and my tourist visa verified. I also had to tell the border authorities in writing where I was staying throughout my visit. At each hotel, my passport photo page was copied and kept with my credit card information. The Indian government knew where I was throughout my trip and they knew when I departed the country.

The U.S? No such monitoring during your stay in this country. When your visa expires, do we know where you are or notify you in any way? No. Pitiful 3rd world effort by the U.S.

We ask all the same questions stop your nonsense

 

[HJCane]

We should care about border crossings, but that doesn't require a ludicrous physical structure stretching thousands of miles. First, come up with a comprehensive plan to deal with visa overstays, then come up with a plan to sure up the border by increasing resources, technology, and manpower to get the job done.

More manpower? How about helping the manpower? Technology is one aspect but so is securing the border.

 

[HJCane]

Facts don't care about feelings.

Raoul it's not a contest on which can be worse. We can make a thread on visa overstays if you want. This thread was about the wall and why liberals have a problem with a barrier at our southern border. To me it's common sense

 

[Raoul2]

More manpower? How about helping the manpower? Technology is one aspect but so is securing the border.

This can be done by technology. We're no longer in the medieval days where people had to build moats around their city states. Plus, if you've ever been to the southern border you would know that the land isn't amenable to a wall - there are private landowners who want no part of it and in other places the topography is setup to build anything, much less a giant neverending wall. Instead invest in more technology and personnel, and work more closely with the Mexican side.