Making a Murderer

[JusticeCanes]

Skibby's arrogant and know-it-all attitude throughout this thread is the epitome of what is wrong with this POS board. Here's the deal, Skibby. You're entitled to your opinion, of that there's no doubt. But the reality of the situation is that you don't have a phucking clue whether he's guilty or not. You have an OPINION that he's guilty, which as I said is fine. But when you insist on asserting your OPINION as FACT, you do nothing other than make yourself look like a total tool.

Now, as for your OPINION, you have zero inside information. You don't know what evidence there was or wasn't anymore than anyone else here. All you are doing is reading things on the Internet and then repeating them as if they are gospel. Just like you do when you try to try to come off as some sort of recruiting expert. Here's a little newsflash for you: not everything reported on the Internet is actually true!

The bottom line is there are plenty of things that point to Avery's guilt. And there are plenty of other things that point to Avery's innocence and/or a police setup. Believe what you want. But stop acting as if you know for sure something that you absolutely do not.

 

[PHILCANE]

Again, the documentary mislead you. The trailer was not searched multiple times. The first time they executed a full search of the trailer, they found the key. The 3 times they were in the trailer prior to that, we're not full searches. The first time, they went in looking for her. The second time, they went looking for something on his computer. The third time, they were only there for a few minutes before deciding to call off the search due to the weather and fear of contaminating evidence.

Also, I don't believe Lenk found the bullet.

He did and was not mislead. Insure were ever your getting your info from is slated as well. Just to the other side. You have your beliefs and I have mine. That part of the country sucks.

 

[anon_ooavwelzdfp8n]

Skibby's arrogant and know-it-all attitude throughout this thread is the epitome of what is wrong with this POS board. Here's the deal, Skibby. You're entitled to your opinion, of that there's no doubt. But the reality of the situation is that you don't have a phucking clue whether he's guilty or not. You have an OPINION that he's guilty, which as I said is fine. But when you insist on asserting your OPINION as FACT, you do nothing other than make yourself look like a total tool.

Now, as for your OPINION, you have zero inside information. You don't know what evidence there was or wasn't anymore than anyone else here. All you are doing is reading things on the Internet and then repeating them as if they are gospel. Just like you do when you try to try to come off as some sort of recruiting expert. Here's a little newsflash for you: not everything reported on the Internet is actually true!

The bottom line is there are plenty of things that point to Avery's guilt. And there are plenty of other things that point to Avery's innocence and/or a police setup. Believe what you want. But stop acting as if you know for sure something that you absolutely do not.

Yep, the actual court documents shouldn't be trusted? Is that what you are saying? The fact is, a lot of people are forming their opinions based off what they saw in a fvcking documentary without looking into it further. I've actually read various court documents and my brother who is a DA has read many, many more. That documentary gave only a very, very small sample of the case against Avery.

Second, I've done nothing but express opinion in this thread. My opinion is that he is guilty. Was the case mishandled in a lot of ways? Absolutely. However, there was no real evidence supporting the documentary's inference that he was set up.

This is coming from a guy who thought he was innocent and framed after watching the documentary. After seeing the other evidence, I changed my mind pretty quickly.

IMO, Steven Avery is a sociopath. He should have been spending a 30 year sentence for committing his 3rd felony when he ran his cousin off the road and held her at gun point. Forget about the false rape charges. The guy should have been in prison anyway. In which case, Teresa Halbach would still be alive today.

 

[anon_ooavwelzdfp8n]

He did and was not mislead. Insure were ever your getting your info from is slated as well. Just to the other side. You have your beliefs and I have mine. That part of the country sucks.

My info is coming from the actual court documents.

 

[JusticeCanes]

Yep, the actual court documents shouldn't be trusted? Is that what you are saying? The fact is, a lot of people are forming their opinions based off what they saw in a fvcking documentary without looking into it further. I've actually read various court documents and my brother who is a DA has read many, many more. That documentary gave only a very, very small sample of the case against Avery.

Second, I've done nothing but express opinion in this thread. My opinion is that he is guilty. Was the case mishandled in a lot of ways? Absolutely. However, there was no real evidence supporting the documentary's inference that he was set up.

This is coming from a guy who thought he was innocent and framed after watching the documentary. After seeing the other evidence, I changed my mind pretty quickly.

IMO, Steven Avery is a sociopath. He should have been spending a 30 year sentence for committing his 3rd felony when he ran his cousin off the road and held her at gun point. Forget about the false rape charges. The guy should have been in prison anyway. In which case, Teresa Halbach would still be alive today.

Nice try, Skibby.

First of all, I'm not going to say what I do for a living, but suffice it to say I know more about criminal law and how criminal trials work than you or any DA (yes, even your brother).

Secondly, you are utterly full of you know what when you say you are getting your information from "court documents." You think that by using that phrase you sound official and are fooling people, but you are not. The only "court documents" that could even possibly give a glimpse of what really happened during that trial are the transcripts of testimony and the actual exhibits that were received not the record, none of which you have seen and you know it.

Third, you have no clue what happened in connection with the alleged "run off the road" incident, you really don't. Again, you are reading things on the Internet and then accepting them as the undeniable truth.

Lastly, at least you are now on record as admitting that everything you type is merely your opinion. I guess that's a good thing

 

[anon_ooavwelzdfp8n]

Nice try, Skibby.

First of all, I'm not going to say what I do for a living, but suffice it to say I know more about criminal law and how criminal trials work than you or any DA (yes, even your brother).

Secondly, you are utterly full of you know what when you say you are getting your information from "court documents." You think that by using that phrase you sound official and are fooling people, but you are not. The only "court documents" that could even possibly give a glimpse of what really happened during that trial are the transcripts of testimony and the actual exhibits that were received not the record, none of which you have seen and you know it.

Third, you have no clue what happened in connection with the alleged "run off the road" incident, you really don't. Again, you are reading things on the Internet and then accepting them as the undeniable truth.

Lastly, at least you are now on record as admitting that everything you type is merely your opinion. I guess that's a good thing

Everything I type on here is just my opinion. Always has been.

Yes, I've seen transcripts of testimony, statements, and interviews. My brother has reviewed a ton more as he has access to it through his office. He's reviewed warrants, reports drafted after warrants were executed, appellate opinions, etc.

Regarding the run off the road incident. Avery admitted to running her off the road and possessing a firearm. Given his previous felony record and depending on state law, that carries some serious potential prison time.

 

[anon_ooavwelzdfp8n]

Nice try, Skibby.

First of all, I'm not going to say what I do for a living, but suffice it to say I know more about criminal law and how criminal trials work than you or any DA (yes, even your brother).

Secondly, you are utterly full of you know what when you say you are getting your information from "court documents." You think that by using that phrase you sound official and are fooling people, but you are not. The only "court documents" that could even possibly give a glimpse of what really happened during that trial are the transcripts of testimony and the actual exhibits that were received not the record, none of which you have seen and you know it.

Third, you have no clue what happened in connection with the alleged "run off the road" incident, you really don't. Again, you are reading things on the Internet and then accepting them as the undeniable truth.

Lastly, at least you are now on record as admitting that everything you type is merely your opinion. I guess that's a good thing

And, unless you are an attorney, you don't know shit about criminal law.

 

[JusticeCanes]

And, unless you are an attorney, you don't know shit about criminal law.

I'm more than just an attorney. And yes, I know more about criminal law than you and your brother combined. I will just leave it at that.

 

[anon_ooavwelzdfp8n]

I'm more than just an attorney. And yes, I know more about criminal law than you and your brother combined. I will just leave it at that.

My guess is you're a judge. That's great. I'm sure you do know more. I'm willing to bet you don't know more about this case though.

 

[Dr.L.ThugU]

Only Skippy can watch the cop leading the slow kid Brendan as they interrogate him. Leading him while it was obvious he just wanted them to stop asking him questions. Can watch that woman say the holy spirit lead her to the Rav4 in the middle of that junk yard. Can watch the judge decide every and any thing the defense asked for was irrelevant and inadmissible and sit here and say the cops did no wrong, the state did no wrong....and he is a pompous ass about it to boot. Dumb and arrogant is not a good combo.

 

[ShreveCane]

Just remember the dynamics the of judicial system. The DA and the Assistant DA's are friends with the Judges, Police, FBI, Jail, Warden, etc.... They all hang out together, go to family functions together, etc....

Law enforcement and the Justice department is perverse and ultimately, the one willing to spend the most amount of money usually wins. All shenanigans that occurs behind closed doors between law enforcement and the judicial is covered in the name of ethics and the perception of the rule of law.

A good lawyer knows this and understand how to play the game.

 

[anon_ooavwelzdfp8n]

Only Skippy can watch the cop leading the slow kid Brendan as they interrogate him. Leading him while it was obvious he just wanted them to stop asking him questions. Can watch that woman say the holy spirit lead her to the Rav4 in the middle of that junk yard. Can watch the judge decide every and any thing the defense asked for was irrelevant and inadmissible and sit here and say the cops did no wrong, the state did no wrong....and he is a pompous ass about it to boot. Dumb and arrogant is not a good combo.

I didn't say they did no wrong.

 

[rickdawg11]

The FBI proved that the blood was not planted.

No they didn't.

 

[geppapa]

Im only 3 episodes in and I tend to think that Avery is a nut job. I look forward to finishing the series.

 

[MarcoD70]

You saw about 10% of the trial and evidence.

skibby
yes we've all read up on the REST of the unreported evidence by now but it still doesn't compare to everything we've heard to make everyone feel like things were not handled justly at all. If nothing else, I think all that's being asked for is a re-trial, but one done right.

Are you talking about the tons of phone calls to Halbach from Avery's number? The story someone said about Avery answering the door in a towel? The inmate who said Avery fantasized about torturing women? Anything else?

 

[MarcoD70]

How else do you think his blood and sweat got on the car? You mean to tell me it is more reasonable to believe it was planted AND the FBI was in on it? Really?

his blood got there by being planted most likely
his sweat? Maybe by being by her car and maybe leaning on it at some point ? He wasnt exactly the picture of fitness..hence sweat? There are so many ways you can go with so much "evidence". Bottom line is that the sherrifs dept has given everyone enough reason to question EVERY bit of it....just as Avery did based on lots of his past actions.

 

[Hurricanes1957]

Skibby's arrogant and know-it-all attitude throughout this thread is the epitome of what is wrong with this POS board. Here's the deal, Skibby. You're entitled to your opinion, of that there's no doubt. But the reality of the situation is that you don't have a phucking clue whether he's guilty or not. You have an OPINION that he's guilty, which as I said is fine. But when you insist on asserting your OPINION as FACT, you do nothing other than make yourself look like a total tool.

Now, as for your OPINION, you have zero inside information. You don't know what evidence there was or wasn't anymore than anyone else here. All you are doing is reading things on the Internet and then repeating them as if they are gospel. Just like you do when you try to try to come off as some sort of recruiting expert. Here's a little newsflash for you: not everything reported on the Internet is actually true!

The bottom line is there are plenty of things that point to Avery's guilt. And there are plenty of other things that point to Avery's innocence and/or a police setup. Believe what you want. But stop acting as if you know for sure something that you absolutely do not.

Acting as if you know for sure something that you absolutely do not describes a majority of posters on this site, including you! Not defending Skibby but aren't you doing what you accuse him of doing? JMO

Don't bother answering because I don't have a dog in this fight and could care less about this case and wondering what it has to do with football and the U! This belongs in the lounge!

 

[TEEJAYCANE]

I think he is guilty but with all the shenanigans that happened with the sheriffs office, Brendan and the others put on the stand I dont think he was guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

I think Brendan witnessed it and not sure if he took part in it but he knows what happened. He told the story more than once and the time he called him mom in the 4th episode after he met with the investigator was about a damning as it got.

Ken the appointed lawyer was terrible and made horrible mistakes.

 

[anon_ooavwelzdfp8n]

his blood got there by being planted most likely
his sweat? Maybe by being by her car and maybe leaning on it at some point ? He wasnt exactly the picture of fitness..hence sweat? There are so many ways you can go with so much "evidence". Bottom line is that the sherrifs dept has given everyone enough reason to question EVERY bit of it....just as Avery did based on lots of his past actions.

The sweat was inside her car. No way it could get there by him leaning on the car. The FBI showed that the blood did not come from the vial. The documentary slanted the story to shed a lot more doubt on the FBI's test than there actually was.

 

[anon_ooavwelzdfp8n]

skibby
yes we've all read up on the REST of the unreported evidence by now but it still doesn't compare to everything we've heard to make everyone feel like things were not handled justly at all. If nothing else, I think all that's being asked for is a re-trial, but one done right.

Are you talking about the tons of phone calls to Halbach from Avery's number? The story someone said about Avery answering the door in a towel? The inmate who said Avery fantasized about torturing women? Anything else?

There was a lot more additional evidence than what you read on the Internet. Avery himself told multiple conflicting stories. What was shown in the film was about 10% of the case and evidence.

 

[advarkas]

Al Golden and Mark D'Onofrio almost murdered this football program, and there isn't a criminal defense attorney in the entire country who could argue against that...

 

[MarcoD70]

The sweat was inside her car. No way it could get there by him leaning on the car. The FBI showed that the blood did not come from the vial. The documentary slanted the story to shed a lot more doubt on the FBI's test than there actually was.

No the FBI did not conclusively show that. There was some creepy looking analyst they showed after the test who dulled that blade a bit for the prosecution. Also, there have been plenty of FBI and other "experts" who have claimed that that TEST is in no way accurate enough to prove what the prosecution gained from the results...everything is so murky and, like I said, I am not convinced that Avery is innocent at all....I just think he's far from proven guilty legitimately.

 

[MarcoD70]

Al Golden and Mark D'Onofrio almost murdered this football program, and there isn't a criminal defense attorney in the entire country who could argue against that...

They may have pulled the trigger Varkas...but the administration hired them to do it....

 

[Joetoth]

Al Golden and Mark D'Onofrio almost murdered this football program, and there isn't a criminal defense attorney in the entire country who could argue against that...

I posted the below on page 2 of this thread about our coaching staff killing the program. Saw your comments; great minds thi.......nah, never mind.

Everyone deserves to have their "conversations" without the fear of being chastised, have their post deleted or without other members asking the moderator to have them all banned. Yes, even when it appears to be completely unrelated to Miami football.
**Of course in this particular case, it is clear that this thread is about the actions of our previous coaching staff and the facts surrounding their actions in killing our program. Personally, I find the evidence overwhelming that they were guilty.....I didn't know it was on Netflix already though.

 

[JusticeCanes]

Acting as if you know for sure something that you absolutely do not describes a majority of posters on this site, including you! Not defending Skibby but aren't you doing what you accuse him of doing? JMO

Don't bother answering because I don't have a dog in this fight and could care less about this case and wondering what it has to do with football and the U! This belongs in the lounge!

Apparently you didn't even bother reading my post because, if you had, you would have realized that all I said is that there arguments and evidence that go both ways. I never took a position one way or the other. So to answer your question, no I most certainly am not doing exactly what I said Skibby was doing. I appreciate you interjecting yourself into this discussion even though you "have no dog in this fight," but next time you might want to actually read a post before you respond to it.

#getaclue

 

[clevelandcane]

If the defendant needs to be proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt then there is no way Avery should be in jail.

The cops were dirty as they come. There was no blood evidence. The key? That was a complete joke. No doubt in my mind the police are just as dirty as Avery.

Neither were killers and both did plenty wrong.

Great series but extremely frustrating. I just feel bad for all the ruined lives. Think of Halbach. Her family. Avery's family. All these lives just completely ruined.

 

[Swaggah64]

Skibby. I am leaning to believe you are a complete moron. You have no evidence to the contrary. All speculation on your part.

Law enforcement, prosecuters and politicians are liars and scum. I wish it wasn't true but they are for the most part perps with badges. The honest ones are the exception.

Avery was clearly and obviously set up. What he did to a cat years earlier, while terrible, is irrelevant and doesn't make him a murderer.

Avery did not head the warnings and they got him. He did not commit that crime. So obviously a setup. Because it was presented by the defense does not man it is a lie.

They swore he was guilty of the first crime too and had zero to do with it.

 

[Swaggah64]

How else do you think his blood and sweat got on the car? You mean to tell me it is more reasonable to believe it was planted AND the FBI was in on it? Really?

Yes. Obvious.

 

[anon_ooavwelzdfp8n]

Skibby. I am leaning to believe you are a complete moron. You have no evidence to the contrary. All speculation on your part.

Law enforcement, prosecuters and politicians are liars and scum. I wish it wasn't true but they are for the most part perps with badges. The honest ones are the exception.

Avery was clearly and obviously set up. What he did to a cat years earlier, while terrible, is irrelevant and doesn't make him a murderer.

Avery did not head the warnings and they got him. He did not commit that crime. So obviously a setup. Because it was presented by the defense does not man it is a lie.

They swore he was guilty of the first crime too and had zero to do with it.

You are basing your conclusion entirely based on a documentary, and I'm the moron?

 

[Swaggah64]

You are basing your conclusion entirely based on a documentary, and I'm the moron?

I have done outside reading as well. The story that 'law enforcement' told you on TV was a complete fabrication. The whole story was a complete fabrication. All of the evidence seems planted.

If there is other evidence that you are aware of send a link. Is it a secret?

Are you involved in law enforcement in any way? Family connections or anything else?

Where is the blood? How come only Avery's DNA was on the key?

I tend to

 

[MarcoD70]

Just pinging this thread to see if everyone heard Jodi's interview on Nancy Grace....she thinks Steve did it!

 

[biggee04]

That guy was guilty. No question in my mind. Evidence not shown in the documentary is too compelling. That chick hated to be assigned to his property and was fearful of going.

Come on man, you can't watch that show and say he was guilty, he was innocent, just to much didn't add up, they planted all that evidence, and if a person is killed, shot, cut throat and no blood was found in the Garage! Come on dude!

 

[biggee04]

Skinny this is America. We don't convict on "probably". There is zero evidence to conclude that his "confession" is accurate. You just said, she obviously wasn't killed in the house or garage.... Okay well that is what his confession says. The only story he tells that is consistent is the true story where he comes home plays video games, gets a call from "Blaines Boss", and then goes to the bonfire.

I agree brother, if he was smart enough to burn the remains surely he would have been smart enough to wipe some blood that's was so visible to see!

 

[biggee04]

How else do you think his blood and sweat got on the car? You mean to tell me it is more reasonable to believe it was planted AND the FBI was in on it? Really?

So skibby you are smart enough to leave no blood trail but you kill someone and park the car on your property and you have a crusher, just don't make to much since to me! Just to many holes to convict a man, and the jurors are from the country that already thinks he's guilty! Another example of a bad system!

 

[biggee04]

Y

He might be guilty. ... But the police definitely planted evidence. I definitely believe the kid was not there when she was killed. It's amazing how many people believe everything the police say.

yes, like they can't or won't lie

 

[biggee04]

The FBI proved that the blood was not planted.

That was not trust worthy, they the defensr poked holes all in that

 

[Swaggah64]

Yep, the actual court documents shouldn't be trusted? Is that what you are saying? The fact is, a lot of people are forming their opinions based off what they saw in a fvcking documentary without looking into it further. I've actually read various court documents and my brother who is a DA has read many, many more. That documentary gave only a very, very small sample of the case against Avery.

Second, I've done nothing but express opinion in this thread. My opinion is that he is guilty. Was the case mishandled in a lot of ways? Absolutely. However, there was no real evidence supporting the documentary's inference that he was set up.

This is coming from a guy who thought he was innocent and framed after watching the documentary. After seeing the other evidence, I changed my mind pretty quickly.

IMO, Steven Avery is a sociopath. He should have been spending a 30 year sentence for committing his 3rd felony when he ran his cousin off the road and held her at gun point. Forget about the false rape charges. The guy should have been in prison anyway. In which case, Teresa Halbach would still be alive today.

The same cousin who led the police to Avery and had no problem with him spending 18 years in jail for a crime he didn't commit.

Court documents are not necessary fact. Every court document that pertained to Averys guilt in the first case is garbage.

Why is Avery a psychopath? Because his cousin says so?

You are so ignorant.

 

[biggee04]

Skibby's arrogant and know-it-all attitude throughout this thread is the epitome of what is wrong with this POS board. Here's the deal, Skibby. You're entitled to your opinion, of that there's no doubt. But the reality of the situation is that you don't have a phucking clue whether he's guilty or not. You have an OPINION that he's guilty, which as I said is fine. But when you insist on asserting your OPINION as FACT, you do nothing other than make yourself look like a total tool.

Now, as for your OPINION, you have zero inside information. You don't know what evidence there was or wasn't anymore than anyone else here. All you are doing is reading things on the Internet and then repeating them as if they are gospel. Just like you do when you try to try to come off as some sort of recruiting expert. Here's a little newsflash for you: not everything reported on the Internet is actually true!

The bottom line is there are plenty of things that point to Avery's guilt. And there are plenty of other things that point to Avery's innocence and/or a police setup. Believe what you want. But stop acting as if you know for sure something that you absolutely do not.

Amen!

 

[MarcoD70]

interesting

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ng-a-murderer-subject-steven-avery-is-guilty/

 

[biggee04]

If the defendant needs to be proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt then there is no way Avery should be in jail.

The cops were dirty as they come. There was no blood evidence. The key? That was a complete joke. No doubt in my mind the police are just as dirty as Avery.

Neither were killers and both did plenty wrong.

Great series but extremely frustrating. I just feel bad for all the ruined lives. Think of Halbach. Her family. Avery's family. All these lives just completely ruined.

I think the exboy friend has something to do with it, he looked real suspect on the stand