ADVERTISEMENT

MY Story With Muhammad Ali...

advarkas

SuperCane
Gold Member
Jan 31, 2007
46,289
58,656
113
Hometown: Coral Gables; Currently: Downtown FTL
January, 2002... The University of Miami had beaten the hell out of Nebraska a few weeks earlier. I received a phone call and was cordially invited to have dinner as a guest, along with some other people with the entire 2001 Miami Hurricanes Team at Joe's Stone Crabs on Miami Beach. Talk about being excited for an opportunity of a lifetime.

As we were all being seated, in walked Muhammad Ali. Yes, THAT Muhammad Ali. Of course, he had already been battling his Parkinson's Disease for almost twenty years. Although his speech was not what it once was, and his physicality was noticeably debilitating, he was still an impressive figure. With his body guards by his side, he shook the hands of everyone at the tables, including mine, and by a remarkable coincidence, ended up sitting two or three chairs away from me. Needless to say, the entire restaurant was in awe of Ali and the National Champion Miami Hurricanes, and there was a lot of picture taking and interaction with the former Heavyweight Champion.

However, there were some brief moments of pause, and I found the courage to get up out of my chair, shake his hand again, and have a conversation (albeit very brief) with him about his faith and religion.

What precipitated me to do this was the fact that 4 years earlier in 1998, when I was 17, my family and I took a trip to the Middle East, which included stops in Israel, Jordan, and Syria. We were briefly imprisoned in Syria for passport technical violations. I have spoken about this incident from time to time on the Board, and many of you who know me know the whole story- I won't take the time to repeat it here. However, I reference what was a difficult time for my family and I in 1998 because I wanted to ask Ali about his conversion to Islam and how he used his faith as a basis for protesting the War, and how other famous people who were opposed to various wars, nevertheless heeded their call as an American to serve this country. Of course, I was respectful with him, and he even smiled and chuckled a few times, probably at the fact that this 21 year old college kid had the curiosity to ask him about real adult issues, of which he was graciously proud to discuss. He told me what most of us already know: that in his mind, he wasn't dodging the Draft because there was no war to fight unless it was declared by "Allah". I remember coming away with the impression that he was bothered, more than anything, by the fact that for HIM, he shouldn't have to fight a "war" some five thousand miles away when there were "wars" (i.e., race/civil rights movement) five miles away. I gave him a hug and thanked him for his time and wished him well and sat back down. For such a powerful, all-time great American athlete, his demeanor was very peaceful- talking to him felt like talking to a professor in college, and I wanted to soak up as much of his thoughts as I could in the little time I talked to him at the table.

So, with this short story, I say now what I have said over the past few days, and what I have consistently said for years. That is, as much as I respect Ali for being one of the greatest all-time American Athletes, for ME, I do not consider him one of the greatest all-time AMERICANS, because of his reluctance to heed the call of duty and serve his country (despite what can be considered a reasonable basis based on his faith). That doesn't mean that Ali was either a bad person or a bad American, but it DOES mean, in my opinion, that he cannot be considered a great American on the level of a George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Jackie Robinson, Fredrick Douglass, or a George Patton. I will concede that Ali DID serve his country in other ways, most notably as a proponent for racial equality under the law. Perhaps it can be argued that that was even more important than fighting in the War.

What is truly disgusting, dishonest, and frankly disturbing is how some of you treat reasonable criticism of Ali as some sort of either racially or bigotry based personal attack. That is weak sauce shit. If you have a reasonable rebuttal to criticism of Ali, then lay it out like an intellectual person, instead of being weak. All this other bullshit attacking posters who either criticize Ali or have a different opinion is WEAK. It is what weak minded people do. Don't twist words; don't shift the narrative; don't be a p***y and play the race card when there is no basis for playing it. What I find funny almost as much as anything is the fact that so many people tell me I would never say "ABC" to such and such person- well chances are, I ALREADY HAVE. I'll discuss any issue, anytime, anywhere.
 
Last edited:
Strong stuff. He was controversial for many reasons. He never criticized those who criticized him so long as it was done in a respectful and dignified manner. He understood why his actions created controversy. Many war veterans and those who have lost loved ones in service of the country are very critical of him. Their opinion, even though not a heavyweight champion, is just as valid as Ali's -- and Ali would tell you that himself. A fascinating guy indeed. Gotta respect someone who puts their money where their mouth is despite even at such a great expense.
 
Strong stuff. He was controversial for many reasons. He never criticized those who criticized him so long as it was done in a respectful and dignified manner. He understood why his actions created controversy. Many war veterans and those who have lost loved ones in service of the country are very critical of him. Their opinion, even though not a heavyweight champion, is just as valid as Ali's -- and Ali would tell you that himself. A fascinating guy indeed. Gotta respect someone who puts their money where their mouth is despite even at such a great expense.

The thing that was impressed me the most about him was how he embraced conversation- not just with me, but with everyone. Fans, journalists, activists, whatever... His intellectual capacity and curiosity often gets overlooked because of his greatness as an athlete.
 
January, 2002... The University of Miami had beaten the hell out of Nebraska a few weeks earlier. I received a phone call and was cordially invited to have dinner as a guest, along with some other people with the entire 2001 Miami Hurricanes Team at Joe's Stone Crabs on Miami Beach. Talk about being excited for an opportunity of a lifetime.

As we were all being seated, in walked Muhammad Ali. Yes, THAT Muhammad Ali. Of course, he had already been battling his Parkinson's Disease for almost twenty years. Although his speech was not what it once was, and his physicality was noticeably debilitating, he was still an impressive figure. With his body guards by his side, he shook the hands of everyone at the tables, including mine, and by a remarkable coincidence, ended up sitting two or three chairs away from me. Needless to say, the entire restaurant was in awe of Ali and the National Champion Miami Hurricanes, and there was a lot of picture taking and interaction with the former Heavyweight Champion.

However, there were some brief moments of pause, and I found the courage to get up out of my chair, shake his hand again, and have a conversation (albeit very brief) with him about his faith and religion.

What precipitated me to do this was the fact that 4 years earlier in 1998, when I was 17, my family and I took a trip to the Middle East, which included stops in Israel, Jordan, and Syria. We were briefly imprisoned in Syria for passport technical violations. I have spoken about this incident from time to time on the Board, and many of you who know me know the whole story- I won't take the time to repeat it here. However, I reference what was a difficult time for my family and I in 1998 because I wanted to ask Ali about his conversion to Islam and how he used his faith as a basis for protesting the War, and how other famous people who were opposed to various wars, nevertheless heeded their call as an American to serve this country. Of course, I was respectful with him, and he even smiled and chuckled a few times, probably at the fact that this 21 year old college kid had the curiosity to ask him about real adult issues, of which he was graciously proud to discuss. He told me what most of us already know: that in his mind, he wasn't dodging the Draft because there was no war to fight unless it was declared by "Allah". I remember coming away with the impression that he was bothered, more than anything, by the fact that for HIM, he shouldn't have to fight a "war" some five thousand miles away when there were "wars" (i.e., race/civil rights movement) five miles away. I gave him a hug and thanked him for his time and wished him well and sat back down. For such a powerful, all-time great American athlete, his demeanor was very peaceful- talking to him felt like talking to a professor in college, and I wanted to soak up as much of his thoughts as I could in the little time I talked to him at the table.

So, with this short story, I say now what I have said over the past few days, and what I have consistently said for years. That is, as much as I respect Ali for being one of the greatest all-time American Athletes, for ME, I do not consider him one of the greatest all-time AMERICANS, because of his reluctance to heed the call of duty and serve his country (despite what can be considered a reasonable basis based on his faith). That doesn't mean that Ali was either a bad person or a bad American, but it DOES mean, in my opinion, that he cannot be considered a great American on the level of a George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Jackie Robinson, Fredrick Douglass, or a George Patton. I will concede that Ali DID serve his country in other ways, most notably as a proponent for racial equality under the law. Perhaps it can be argued that that was even more important than fighting in the War.

What is truly disgusting, dishonest, and frankly disturbing is how some of you treat reasonable criticism of Ali as some sort of either racially or bigotry based personal attack. That is weak sauce shit. If you have a reasonable rebuttal to criticism of Ali, then lay it out like an intellectual person, instead of being weak. All this other bullshit attacking posters who either criticize Ali or have a different opinion is WEAK. It is what weak minded people do. Don't twist words; don't shift the narrative; don't be a p***y and play the race card when there is no basis for playing it. What I find funny almost as much as anything is the fact that so many people tell me I would never say "ABC" to such and such person- well chances are, I ALREADY HAVE. I'll discuss any issue, anytime, anywhere.
There have been plenty of rebuttals in the other threads to your “he is not a great American” comment. I don’t recall too many people if anybody slamming you as a racist because of your comment. What I do recall is people pointing out in those threads that Ali did exactly what our Founding Fathers would have wanted him to do which was protest peacefully and use all legal avenues available to him. Thats the way we change policy in America and he gave up four years of his prime to do it when he was told he wouldnt be on the front lines if he went to Vietnam. I recall others also telling you how people who were subject to legal segregation and lynching’s in this country were being told “get ready to die” on the Hồ Chí Minh Trail. I don’t know how many rebuttals you’re looking for but just turn on any channel and you’ll see conservatives, liberals, independents, etc., all come together to describe Ali as a hero and the ultimate American!!!!
 
Last edited:
There have been plenty of rebuttals in the other threads to your “he is not a great American” comment. I don’t recall too many people if anybody slamming you as a racist. What I do recall is people pointing out that he did exactly what our Founding Fathers would have wanted him to do which was protest peacefully and use all legal avenues available to him. I recall others also telling you how people who were subject to legal segregation and lynching’s in this country were being told “get ready to die” on the Hồ Chí Minh Trail. I don’t know many rebuttals you’re looking for but just turn on any channel you’ll see conservatives, liberals, independents, etc., all come together to describe Ali as a hero and the ultimate American!!!!

There is plenty of both direct attacks and innuendo from other posters towards people (not just me) who are critical of Ali.

That issue aside, I understand that the United States Supreme Court ultimately ruled in his favor. I think it was unanimous decision. I don't contest the legal basis for his position in protesting the War and refusing to report for draft duty. My opinion is that Ali is not an "all-time great" American. For me, he does not belong on the top tier of the greatest of Americans. "American Athletes", yes. "All-time great" Americans, no- at least not in the sense of what I and many consider to be a great American and Patriot. I recognize that Ali did a tremendous amount for this country, mostly in the realm of racial equality under the law. I neither overlook that nor do I deny it, but for me, Ali is not an ALL-TIME great American. A good American who did a lot of great things in sports and social issues. That is how I view him in History, but my perception will be different than a lot of people because I am only 35 and never saw him in his prime.
 
There is plenty of both direct attacks and innuendo from other posters towards people (not just me) who are critical of Ali.

That issue aside, I understand that the United States Supreme Court ultimately ruled in his favor. I think it was unanimous decision. I don't contest the legal basis for his position in protesting the War and refusing to report for draft duty. My opinion is that Ali is not an "all-time great" American. For me, he does not belong on the top tier of the greatest of Americans. "American Athletes", yes. "All-time great" Americans, no- at least not in the sense of what I and many consider to be a great American and Patriot. I recognize that Ali did a tremendous amount for this country, mostly in the realm of racial equality under the law. I neither overlook that nor do I deny it, but for me, Ali is not an ALL-TIME great American. A good American who did a lot of great things in sports and social issues. That is how I view him in History, but my perception will be different than a lot of people because I am only 35 and never saw him in his prime.
You also have to consider you made the comment hours after he died while wounds are fresh for many of us as we are trying to pay tribute.
 
but it DOES mean, in my opinion, that he cannot be considered a great American on the level of a George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Jackie Robinson, Fredrick Douglass, or a George Patton.
Maybe not. But I would also say he probably isn't nearly as concerned with being a great American as he is with being a great man. And I think that would be hard to debate.

As I said yesterday, it had to be very difficult for any black man of that era to feel a great deal of pride or love for this country. I know many did, but I certainly can't blame those that did not.
 
That is a fair point.

Why did the initial colonist flee Europe? Were freedoms being granted in the segregated Jim Crow south in which he lived (which blatantly ignored the 13th/14th Amendment's). What was the image of AA's at the time in which he defiantly opposed and changed.

AJ, you're my guy and I respect (do not agree with) your opinion on his status as an American- social figure. America was in such a social diseray that Bobby Kennedy proclaimed that there was no solution to racism...from their perspective I don't think that statement is hyperbole. Because of dudes like them, their sacrifice(s) pulled us through that ugly time.
 
Maybe not. But I would also say he probably isn't nearly as concerned with being a great American as he is with being a great man. And I think that would be hard to debate.

As I said yesterday, it had to be very difficult for any black man of that era to feel a great deal of pride or love for this country. I know many did, but I certainly can't blame those that did not.
For me, if an American citizen is considered a great man but not a great American then we as a country need to re-evaluate our principles. Jmo
 
Strong stuff. He was controversial for many reasons. He never criticized those who criticized him so long as it was done in a respectful and dignified manner. He understood why his actions created controversy. Many war veterans and those who have lost loved ones in service of the country are very critical of him. Their opinion, even though not a heavyweight champion, is just as valid as Ali's -- and Ali would tell you that himself. A fascinating guy indeed. Gotta respect someone who puts their money where their mouth is despite even at such a great expense.
Well one thing for sure he is nothing like Donald Trump!
 
Maybe not. But I would also say he probably isn't nearly as concerned with being a great American as he is with being a great man. And I think that would be hard to debate.

As I said yesterday, it had to be very difficult for any black man of that era to feel a great deal of pride or love for this country. I know many did, but I certainly can't blame those that did not.

From my own experience, I am comfortable stating that he is closer to being a great man than not. I don't know what is going in on his own mind, but he was man who gave me the impression that he was what I would call "at peace with himself", presumably because he stood by his own beliefs despite some sharp criticism.
 
Strong stuff. He was controversial for many reasons. He never criticized those who criticized him so long as it was done in a respectful and dignified manner. He understood why his actions created controversy. Many war veterans and those who have lost loved ones in service of the country are very critical of him. Their opinion, even though not a heavyweight champion, is just as valid as Ali's -- and Ali would tell you that himself. A fascinating guy indeed. Gotta respect someone who puts their money where their mouth is despite even at such a great expense.

This man should be the idol of every black man in this country. Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton have nothing on this man. A true champion not only in the ring but as a human being.

Loved watching him. THE ALL TIME GREATEST EVER TO STRAP ON THE GLOVES...!!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: pimpstick420
Why did the initial colonist flee Europe? Were freedoms being granted in the segregated Jim Crow south in which he lived (which blatantly ignored the 13th/14th Amendment's). What was the image of AA's at the time in which he defiantly opposed and changed.

AJ, you're my guy and I respect (do not agree with) your opinion on his status as an American- social figure. America was in such a social diseray that Bobby Kennedy proclaimed that there was no solution to racism...from their perspective I don't think that statement is hyperbole. Because of dudes like them, their sacrifice(s) pulled us through that ugly time.

The feeling is mutual, thank you.

We know that the English settlers fled England because of the threat of religious persecution. Tensions between Catholics and Protestants were growing for many years in England, and it came to a head when Elizabeth I (a Protestant) took the throne, who was met with assassination attempts by English Catholics. Phillip of Spain, a devout Catholic, eventually assembled his Spanish naval Armada and attempted to invade England and overthrow Elizabeth I, in what I believe was sometime between 1580-1590. This background is important because it puts into context what the English settlers i.e., the Pilgrams truly wanted when they left Plymouth on The Mayflower and arrived in the Cape Cod area in 1620. Basic freedoms, most of which was freedom of religion, was the backbone that ultimately gave rise to the Declaration of Independence and the formation of our Constitution. Now, all this comes full circle with the racial inequalities under the law that blacks were experiencing at the time the Civil Rights Movement was well under way when Ali protested the War. Certainly, Ali played an important part of being a driving factor for change in society to ensure that there was racial equality under the law. The United States Supreme Court's decision in Brown v. Board of Education (1954) which overturned its predecessor ruling in Plessy v. Ferguson, provided Ali and many other Civil Rights Activists with the legal basis to protest, demonstrate, and argue for racial equality under the law.
 
Complicated subject. I've always been a fan. And I certainly did not want to get drafted . Thankfully the war was winding down when my student deferment ended.
What concerns me is that his position was that no AA should serve as the country was a racist one, who discriminatated against blacks.
Not sure how this was a unifying position. Thanks to all those who served in Vietnam , particularly those 58000
 
  • Like
Reactions: LCTodd
Why did the initial colonist flee Europe? Were freedoms being granted in the segregated Jim Crow south in which he lived (which blatantly ignored the 13th/14th Amendment's). What was the image of AA's at the time in which he defiantly opposed and changed.

AJ, you're my guy and I respect (do not agree with) your opinion on his status as an American- social figure. America was in such a social diseray that Bobby Kennedy proclaimed that there was no solution to racism...from their perspective I don't think that statement is hyperbole. Because of dudes like them, their sacrifice(s) pulled us through that ugly time.


Man, you just had to have lived in the time. Many old white hippies still living today probably consider themselves great americans. After having returned from Canada or other parts of the world to avoid going to Viet Nam. I'm a 65 year old WASP, was in the eight grade when JFK was assassinated. What Ali did for his country is no different than what other 18 year old kids did for their country by serving.

Ali, by virtue of the times, risk his life by his actions, surely just as soldiers did. They had just assassinated the President of the US for GOD's sake. You think as a Black man, turned muslim, draft dodging ****** can't be shot. I used the N word here, out of respect to Ali, just as he said on TV, "Ain't no Viet Nam ever called me n......., I ani't got no quarl with them.

Every great american seem to share a common trait; commitment to their belief. What every brave 18 and 19 year old did during this time they were ordered to do. Either serve or go to jail. This war wasn't like the wars of I & II. Very few were volunteering and way too many needlessly lost their lives. However; what Ali did he did alone and this single force of energy moved a nation, while the nation didn't realize it. And while moving this nation, he just happen to become the greatest heavyweight champion the world has ever seen.

Ali epitomizes what it means to be a Great American. His humility of his own greatness gave him the ability to touch a nation and this nation is better for him.

Thank you Ali, Rest In Peace.
 
Man, you just had to have lived in the time. Many old white hippies still living today probably consider themselves great americans. After having returned from Canada or other parts of the world to avoid going to Viet Nam. I'm a 65 year old WASP, was in the eight grade when JFK was assassinated. What Ali did for his country is no different than what other 18 year old kids did for their country by serving.

Ali, by virtue of the times, risk his life by his actions, surely just as soldiers did. They had just assassinated the President of the US for GOD's sake. You think as a Black man, turned muslim, draft dodging ****** can't be shot. I used the N word here, out of respect to Ali, just as he said on TV, "Ain't no Viet Nam ever called me n......., I ani't got no quarl with them.

Every great american seem to share a common trait; commitment to their belief. What every brave 18 and 19 year old did during this time they were ordered to do. Either serve or go to jail. This war wasn't like the wars of I & II. Very few were volunteering and way too many needlessly lost their lives. However; what Ali did he did alone and this single force of energy moved a nation, while the nation didn't realize it. And while moving this nation, he just happen to become the greatest heavyweight champion the world has ever seen.

Ali epitomizes what it means to be a Great American. His humility of his own greatness gave him the ability to touch a nation and this nation is better for him.

Thank you Ali, Rest In Peace.

Crazy, crazy times! How did we pull through it all without tearing each other apart?
 
Complicated subject. I've always been a fan. And I certainly did not want to get drafted . Thankfully the war was winding down when my student deferment ended.
What concerns me is that his position was that no AA should serve as the country was a racist one, who discriminatated against blacks.
Not sure how this was a unifying position. Thanks to all those who served in Vietnam , particularly those 58000
You dont unify a position the way things were in the 60s by acting like Oliver Twist. Seeing as how most of the black draftees came from the South I am betting they were more anxious to go to Vietnam than others because they knew at least in Nam there was a better chance of being treated equally when soldiers are dependent on each other.
 
Last edited:
Man, you just had to have lived in the time. Many old white hippies still living today probably consider themselves great americans. After having returned from Canada or other parts of the world to avoid going to Viet Nam. I'm a 65 year old WASP, was in the eight grade when JFK was assassinated. What Ali did for his country is no different than what other 18 year old kids did for their country by serving.

Ali, by virtue of the times, risk his life by his actions, surely just as soldiers did. They had just assassinated the President of the US for GOD's sake. You think as a Black man, turned muslim, draft dodging ****** can't be shot. I used the N word here, out of respect to Ali, just as he said on TV, "Ain't no Viet Nam ever called me n......., I ani't got no quarl with them.

Every great american seem to share a common trait; commitment to their belief. What every brave 18 and 19 year old did during this time they were ordered to do. Either serve or go to jail. This war wasn't like the wars of I & II. Very few were volunteering and way too many needlessly lost their lives. However; what Ali did he did alone and this single force of energy moved a nation, while the nation didn't realize it. And while moving this nation, he just happen to become the greatest heavyweight champion the world has ever seen.

Ali epitomizes what it means to be a Great American. His humility of his own greatness gave him the ability to touch a nation and this nation is better for him.

Thank you Ali, Rest In Peace.

Sometimes when I watch those clips it seems surreal that America was that volatile and archaic.
 
You dont unify a position the way things were in the 60s by acting like Oliver Twist. Seeing as how most of the black draftees came from the South I am betting they were more anxious to go to Vietnam than others because they knew at least in Nam there was a better a chance of being treated equally when soldiers are dependent on each other.
But, it was pretty bad in the military too. Not all, I speak to an old 1st Recon/ANGLICO Marine by the name of Vance Hall. He's a hero of mine, the guy has a heart of gold and he served w/Republic of Korea (ROK) Marines - he said those dudes put it all on the line for them. Many of whom died while there. I never probed in detail about the racial climate (I would let him lead convos...), but I will today.
 
But, it was pretty bad in the military too. Not all, I speak to an old 1st Recon/ANGLICO Marine by the name of Vance Hall. He's a hero of mine, the guy has a heart of gold and he served w/Republic of Korea (ROK) Marines - he said those dudes put it all on the line for them. Many of whom died while there. I never probed in detail about the racial climate (I would let him lead convos...), but I will today.
I am sure it was, but I am also betting any time soldiers were advancing through the jungle and realized at the end of the day they were still alive and the black man behind them who was guarding their backs did his job the level of respect grew.
 
Last edited:
You dont unify a position the way things were in the 60s by acting like Oliver Twist. Seeing as how most of the black draftees came from the South I am betting they were more anxious to go to Vietnam than others because they knew at least in Nam there was a better a chance of being treated equally when soldiers are dependent on each other.

The impact of the United States Supreme Court's ruling in Brown v. Board of Education (1954) can't be stated strong enough when speaking about the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960's. Plessy v. Ferguson, which was a United States Supreme Court ruling back in 1895 or so, stood for the principle of law that black and whites could be segregated but equal i.e., "separate but equal". In essence, there were bathrooms for blacks and bathrooms for whites, train cars for blacks and train cars for whites, and on and on and on, and all that was "separate but equal". Blacks and whites could be "separate" i.e., segregated, but were "equal" within the framework of the 14th Amendment (which is the Due Process Clause).

The USSC delivered its opinion in Brown v. Board of Education in 1954 (which I think was a 9-0 unanimous decision rendered by Warren) and completely receded from its prior ruling in Plessy v. Ferguson. There was no longer "separate but equal" i.e., legal segregation.

Now that minorities had a USSC ruling making segregation ILLEGAL, the issue was then to take this law and put it into action to force social change and have ALL Americans "equal under the law" i.e., "racial equality under the law". So when you see ALI, and Martin Luther King, and Medgar Evars, and all of these activists in the 1960's trying to force social change so that there is "racial equality" in desegregating schools, public facilities, busses, etc... ALL OF IT, comes from Brown v. Board of Education in 1954.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pimpstick420
The impact of the United States Supreme Court's ruling in Brown v. Board of Education (1954) can't be stated strong enough when speaking about the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960's. Plessy v. Ferguson, which was a United States Supreme Court ruling back in 1895 or so, stood for the principle of law that black and whites could be segregated but equal i.e., "separate but equal". In essence, there were bathrooms for blacks and bathrooms for whites, train cars for blacks and train cars for whites, and on and on and on, and all that was "separate but equal". Blacks and whites could be "separate" i.e., segregated, but were "equal" within the framework of the 14th Amendment (which is the Due Process Clause).

The USSC delivered its opinion in Brown v. Board of Education in 1954 (which I think was a 9-0 unanimous decision rendered by Warren) and completely receded from its prior ruling in Plessy v. Ferguson. There was no longer "separate but equal" i.e., legal segregation.

Now that minorities had a USSC ruling making segregation ILLEGAL, the issue was then to take this law and put it into action to force social change and have ALL Americans "equal under the law" i.e., "racial equality under the law". So when you see ALI, and Martin Luther King, and Medgar Evars, and all of these activists in the 1960's trying to force social change so that there is "racial equality" in desegregating schools, public facilities, busses, etc... ALL OF IT, comes from Brown v. Board of Education in 1954.
While these rulings were very important there were still states that ignored them. MLK and Ali were effective because even though they used strong words and strong actions neither of them condoned violence.....they used patience and persistence and wouldnt give in.
 
Last edited:
While these ruling were very important there were still states that ignored them.The reason why people like MLK and Ali were effective was because even though they used strong words and strong actions neither of them condoned violence.....they used patience and persistence and wouldnt give in.

That's correct. No better example of when JFK had to send federal troops to Mississippi so that Merideth could attend Ole Miss.
 
January, 2002... The University of Miami had beaten the hell out of Nebraska a few weeks earlier. I received a phone call and was cordially invited to have dinner as a guest, along with some other people with the entire 2001 Miami Hurricanes Team at Joe's Stone Crabs on Miami Beach. Talk about being excited for an opportunity of a lifetime.

As we were all being seated, in walked Muhammad Ali. Yes, THAT Muhammad Ali. Of course, he had already been battling his Parkinson's Disease for almost twenty years. Although his speech was not what it once was, and his physicality was noticeably debilitating, he was still an impressive figure. With his body guards by his side, he shook the hands of everyone at the tables, including mine, and by a remarkable coincidence, ended up sitting two or three chairs away from me. Needless to say, the entire restaurant was in awe of Ali and the National Champion Miami Hurricanes, and there was a lot of picture taking and interaction with the former Heavyweight Champion.

However, there were some brief moments of pause, and I found the courage to get up out of my chair, shake his hand again, and have a conversation (albeit very brief) with him about his faith and religion.

What precipitated me to do this was the fact that 4 years earlier in 1998, when I was 17, my family and I took a trip to the Middle East, which included stops in Israel, Jordan, and Syria. We were briefly imprisoned in Syria for passport technical violations. I have spoken about this incident from time to time on the Board, and many of you who know me know the whole story- I won't take the time to repeat it here. However, I reference what was a difficult time for my family and I in 1998 because I wanted to ask Ali about his conversion to Islam and how he used his faith as a basis for protesting the War, and how other famous people who were opposed to various wars, nevertheless heeded their call as an American to serve this country. Of course, I was respectful with him, and he even smiled and chuckled a few times, probably at the fact that this 21 year old college kid had the curiosity to ask him about real adult issues, of which he was graciously proud to discuss. He told me what most of us already know: that in his mind, he wasn't dodging the Draft because there was no war to fight unless it was declared by "Allah". I remember coming away with the impression that he was bothered, more than anything, by the fact that for HIM, he shouldn't have to fight a "war" some five thousand miles away when there were "wars" (i.e., race/civil rights movement) five miles away. I gave him a hug and thanked him for his time and wished him well and sat back down. For such a powerful, all-time great American athlete, his demeanor was very peaceful- talking to him felt like talking to a professor in college, and I wanted to soak up as much of his thoughts as I could in the little time I talked to him at the table.

So, with this short story, I say now what I have said over the past few days, and what I have consistently said for years. That is, as much as I respect Ali for being one of the greatest all-time American Athletes, for ME, I do not consider him one of the greatest all-time AMERICANS, because of his reluctance to heed the call of duty and serve his country (despite what can be considered a reasonable basis based on his faith). That doesn't mean that Ali was either a bad person or a bad American, but it DOES mean, in my opinion, that he cannot be considered a great American on the level of a George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Jackie Robinson, Fredrick Douglass, or a George Patton. I will concede that Ali DID serve his country in other ways, most notably as a proponent for racial equality under the law. Perhaps it can be argued that that was even more important than fighting in the War.

What is truly disgusting, dishonest, and frankly disturbing is how some of you treat reasonable criticism of Ali as some sort of either racially or bigotry based personal attack. That is weak sauce shit. If you have a reasonable rebuttal to criticism of Ali, then lay it out like an intellectual person, instead of being weak. All this other bullshit attacking posters who either criticize Ali or have a different opinion is WEAK. It is what weak minded people do. Don't twist words; don't shift the narrative; don't be a p***y and play the race card when there is no basis for playing it. What I find funny almost as much as anything is the fact that so many people tell me I would never say "ABC" to such and such person- well chances are, I ALREADY HAVE. I'll discuss any issue, anytime, anywhere.

HATER!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Brooks B
Someone earlier mentioned Jesse Jackson and Sharpton as great men????? Lol. Have they ever missed a chance to grandstand and get in front of the camera?
 
Ali was a bad man in the ring indeed.....
I can't call anyone a " great man" who was divorced 4 times.
A great man to me is a man of faith, a man of his word, a courageous man, , a man who sets an example for his kids......
Ali, doesn't fit that description to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hurricanes1957
January, 2002... The University of Miami had beaten the hell out of Nebraska a few weeks earlier. I received a phone call and was cordially invited to have dinner as a guest, along with some other people with the entire 2001 Miami Hurricanes Team at Joe's Stone Crabs on Miami Beach. Talk about being excited for an opportunity of a lifetime.

As we were all being seated, in walked Muhammad Ali. Yes, THAT Muhammad Ali. Of course, he had already been battling his Parkinson's Disease for almost twenty years. Although his speech was not what it once was, and his physicality was noticeably debilitating, he was still an impressive figure. With his body guards by his side, he shook the hands of everyone at the tables, including mine, and by a remarkable coincidence, ended up sitting two or three chairs away from me. Needless to say, the entire restaurant was in awe of Ali and the National Champion Miami Hurricanes, and there was a lot of picture taking and interaction with the former Heavyweight Champion.

However, there were some brief moments of pause, and I found the courage to get up out of my chair, shake his hand again, and have a conversation (albeit very brief) with him about his faith and religion.

What precipitated me to do this was the fact that 4 years earlier in 1998, when I was 17, my family and I took a trip to the Middle East, which included stops in Israel, Jordan, and Syria. We were briefly imprisoned in Syria for passport technical violations. I have spoken about this incident from time to time on the Board, and many of you who know me know the whole story- I won't take the time to repeat it here. However, I reference what was a difficult time for my family and I in 1998 because I wanted to ask Ali about his conversion to Islam and how he used his faith as a basis for protesting the War, and how other famous people who were opposed to various wars, nevertheless heeded their call as an American to serve this country. Of course, I was respectful with him, and he even smiled and chuckled a few times, probably at the fact that this 21 year old college kid had the curiosity to ask him about real adult issues, of which he was graciously proud to discuss. He told me what most of us already know: that in his mind, he wasn't dodging the Draft because there was no war to fight unless it was declared by "Allah". I remember coming away with the impression that he was bothered, more than anything, by the fact that for HIM, he shouldn't have to fight a "war" some five thousand miles away when there were "wars" (i.e., race/civil rights movement) five miles away. I gave him a hug and thanked him for his time and wished him well and sat back down. For such a powerful, all-time great American athlete, his demeanor was very peaceful- talking to him felt like talking to a professor in college, and I wanted to soak up as much of his thoughts as I could in the little time I talked to him at the table.

So, with this short story, I say now what I have said over the past few days, and what I have consistently said for years. That is, as much as I respect Ali for being one of the greatest all-time American Athletes, for ME, I do not consider him one of the greatest all-time AMERICANS, because of his reluctance to heed the call of duty and serve his country (despite what can be considered a reasonable basis based on his faith). That doesn't mean that Ali was either a bad person or a bad American, but it DOES mean, in my opinion, that he cannot be considered a great American on the level of a George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Jackie Robinson, Fredrick Douglass, or a George Patton. I will concede that Ali DID serve his country in other ways, most notably as a proponent for racial equality under the law. Perhaps it can be argued that that was even more important than fighting in the War.

What is truly disgusting, dishonest, and frankly disturbing is how some of you treat reasonable criticism of Ali as some sort of either racially or bigotry based personal attack. That is weak sauce shit. If you have a reasonable rebuttal to criticism of Ali, then lay it out like an intellectual person, instead of being weak. All this other bullshit attacking posters who either criticize Ali or have a different opinion is WEAK. It is what weak minded people do. Don't twist words; don't shift the narrative; don't be a p***y and play the race card when there is no basis for playing it. What I find funny almost as much as anything is the fact that so many people tell me I would never say "ABC" to such and such person- well chances are, I ALREADY HAVE. I'll discuss any issue, anytime, anywhere.

Varkas.. Thanks for a very thoughtful and enlightening post...
 
Alexander is a very intelligent young man with great views…BUT everything he say's isn't right. Thats all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: normsmith
Ali was a bad man in the ring indeed.....
I can't call anyone a " great man" who was divorced 4 times.
A great man to me is a man of faith, a man of his word, a courageous man, , a man who sets an example for his kids......
Ali, doesn't fit that description to me.
Then there aren't many great men who were famous. Not all may have been divorced 4 times, but many did the types of things that ultimately lead to divorce in many instances, so no different in my book. Even great men have flaws and weaknesses.
 
Hey Block head…stop telling these boring stories to any females you think want to marry you…trust me, they think you are the strange geek which you are…let it go…ha ha

This guy Alexander AKA Advarkas is a f'ing mess…he just might do it one day...
 
  • Like
Reactions: kerem
Hey Block head…stop telling these boring stories to any females you think want to marry you…trust me, they think you are the strange geek which you are…let it go…ha ha

This guy Alexander AKA Advarkas is a f'ing mess…he just might do it one day...
Yet, you stalk like a female in heat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StateOfMiami
Honestly I think Varkas is Bipolar, never knowing what is real and what is fabricated. As for Ali, he was a great boxer and ambassador of the sport. Beyond that I'll leave it to the people that knew him best and to those that he impacted.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pimpstick420
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT