Sanctions on Russia will have widespread consequences for all

[cortez55403]

Mike,
In many ways the comparatively small GDP of Russia is the problem. As long as Putin keeps the lights on and the people fed, there will not be widespread revolts. Russia can do both independent of the rest of the world. And the world will continue to buy energy, raw materials and wheat from Russia in one way or another. I am not aware of any government ever being being overthrown due to lack of availability of luxury handbags or KFC.

no Visa, no MasterCard, no Amex, empty ATMs, 50% loss of Ruble’s buying power, no international flights. those are major disruptions to everyday life.

Enough to topple Putin? Unlikely. But, they are the strongest sanctions on any country yet.

 

[wake4law_cane4life]

Agreed Cortez. I don't think they will necessarily topple putin, but they will create conditions that make it far more plausible than it ever has been. And to the poster talking about the human destruction involved in that, I don't cheer or root for that one bit. No one should. But none of the people in russia are suffering through the month and counting of horror death and destruction being rained down. Russia's leader has within his full power the ability to stop all of this instantly and we need to press fully and not let up until the horror show in ukraine stops. And the russian people need to take some responsibility for their leadership and either continue to acquiesce and suffer the economic assault or take a moral stand and go against putin.

 

[central17]

no Visa, no MasterCard, no Amex, empty ATMs, 50% loss of Ruble’s buying power, no international flights. those are major disruptions to everyday life.

Enough to topple Putin? Unlikely. But, they are the strongest sanctions on any country yet.

Cortez,
Our sanctions are relevant to Russia's trade with the west. They are significant and will have long term effects. But with the average Russian's already low standard of living they are surving on their domestic production. Whatever the foreign exchange rate, the ruble retains its value within a domestic value chain. Short term the loss of Russian oil would cause the European middle class far more pain than the loss of Amex and KFC to the average Russian. The average Russian is not taking vacations in Spain. The Russian people may have to survive on basic white bread rather than stone ground artisan loaves. But they will not starve.

And we have not even begun to discuss the Billions of people in China, India, Pakistan and the Middle East that will gladly purchase Russian goods and sell theirs. Japan will continue to buy Russian oil and gas.
https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/... follow the,Prime Minister Fumio Kishida said.

China has far more influence in much of Africa than the west.

But back to the immediate reality; how many Ukranian lives is keeping the Donbas and his rock star status worth to Zalensky? The West's ridiculous caving to the green weenies, without alternative energy being available and competitively priced has given Putin an economic wedge. This flaw must be fixed quickly in order to outlast Russia
Live to fight another day.

 

[ddimaggio]

Cortez,
Our sanctions are relevant to Russia's trade with the west. They are significant and will have long term effects. But with the average Russian's already low standard of living they are surving on their domestic production. Whatever the foreign exchange rate, the ruble retains its value within a domestic value chain. Short term the loss of Russian oil would cause the European middle class far more pain than the loss of Amex and KFC to the average Russian. The average Russian is not taking vacations in Spain. The Russian people may have to survive on basic white bread rather than stone ground artisan loaves. But they will not starve.

And we have not even begun to discuss the Billions of people in China, India, Pakistan and the Middle East that will gladly purchase Russian goods and sell theirs. Japan will continue to buy Russian oil and gas.
https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/... follow the,Prime Minister Fumio Kishida said.

China has far more influence in much of Africa than the west.

But back to the immediate reality; how many Ukranian lives is keeping the Donbas and his rock star status worth to Zalensky? The West's ridiculous caving to the green weenies, without alternative energy being available and competitively priced has given Putin an economic wedge. This flaw must be fixed quickly in order to outlast Russia
Live to fight another day.

Zalinsky is brave , but also has hubris
That can cost lives , many lives
I’m tired of arm chair generals pontificating on TV about how Russia is losing as Ukrainian citizens are being annihilated

 

[HJCane]

no Visa, no MasterCard, no Amex, empty ATMs, 50% loss of Ruble’s buying power, no international flights. those are major disruptions to everyday life.

Enough to topple Putin? Unlikely. But, they are the strongest sanctions on any country yet.

All true but they don't care.

 

[cortez55403]

All true but they don't care.

Middle and upper middle class Russians, particularly in the younger age groups, will care. As their lifestyles decline, soldiers’ bodies return home, foreign opportunities evaporate and more accurate news leak through to them…discontent will rise.

Totally unclear: how is discontent expressed politically in a Stalinist state? TBD.

 

[HJCane]

Middle and upper middle class Russians, particularly in the younger age groups, will care. As their lifestyles decline, soldiers’ bodies return home, foreign opportunities evaporate and more accurate news leak through to them…discontent will rise.

Totally unclear: how is discontent expressed politically in a Stalinist state? TBD.

cortez I live in a luxuru high rise condo on the beach in Hollywood. In my building I have an Oligarch who owns 1 of the penthouses valued at probably 12mm. I also have other very wealthy Russians, they don't care. They all told me Russia will be fine that the country knows how to survive just fine. I didn't get into whether they support the war because u can only go so far with Russians. They are a unique group of people. The more Americanized they are, the more they don't like the war of course.
As for middle class and all the terms we use here they don't apply. Russia has wealthy and the rest of the country 95% are sort of poor. That's a fact. The oligarch hasn't been here since 2018 when Trump put on sanctions.

 

[HJCane]

Zalinsky is brave , but also has hubris
That can cost lives , many lives
I’m tired of arm chair generals pontificating on TV about how Russia is losing as Ukrainian citizens are being annihilated

First off they don't know who is winning or losing. We Americans can be so arrogant. Because Putin hasn't taken Ukraine fully yet that means he's losing? I'm sure Putin knew Ukranians would put up a fight. He fought in Chechnya for 10 years. Our eyes don't lie Ukraine is mostly destroyed. No one should be surprised their people are fighting they are very tough people over there.

 

[HJCane]

Cortez,
Our sanctions are relevant to Russia's trade with the west. They are significant and will have long term effects. But with the average Russian's already low standard of living they are surving on their domestic production. Whatever the foreign exchange rate, the ruble retains its value within a domestic value chain. Short term the loss of Russian oil would cause the European middle class far more pain than the loss of Amex and KFC to the average Russian. The average Russian is not taking vacations in Spain. The Russian people may have to survive on basic white bread rather than stone ground artisan loaves. But they will not starve.

And we have not even begun to discuss the Billions of people in China, India, Pakistan and the Middle East that will gladly purchase Russian goods and sell theirs. Japan will continue to buy Russian oil and gas.
https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14568711#:~:text=Japan will not follow the,Prime Minister Fumio Kishida said.

China has far more influence in much of Africa than the west.

But back to the immediate reality; how many Ukranian lives is keeping the Donbas and his rock star status worth to Zalensky? The West's ridiculous caving to the green weenies, without alternative energy being available and competitively priced has given Putin an economic wedge. This flaw must be fixed quickly in order to outlast Russia
Live to fight another day.

China has been BUYING Africa. They loan them money and buy their debt. Then they take over. More rare minerals, gold, diamonds.

 

[miamimike]

First off they don't know who is winning or losing. We Americans can be so arrogant. Because Putin hasn't taken Ukraine fully yet that means he's losing? I'm sure Putin knew Ukranians would put up a fight. He fought in Chechnya for 10 years. Our eyes don't lie Ukraine is mostly destroyed. No one should be surprised their people are fighting they are very tough people over there.

"I'm sure Putin knew Ukranians would put up a fight"? Wrong. Putin thought all Ukraine was like the two pro Russian regions and he would be welcomed with open arms. And yes, he is losing. Three weeks into the conflict in Ukraine, Putin is hardly closer to achieving objectives than when he began. It should now be clear to everyone, including Putin, that invading Ukraine was the greatest miscalculation of his career.

 

[HJCane]

"I'm sure Putin knew Ukranians would put up a fight"? Wrong. Putin thought all Ukraine was like the two pro Russian regions and he would be welcomed with open arms. And yes, he is losing. Three weeks into the conflict in Ukraine, Putin is hardly closer to achieving objectives than when he began. It should now be clear to everyone, including Putin, that invading Ukraine was the greatest miscalculation of his career.

Stop watching CNN Mike.

 

[ddimaggio]

Stop watching CNN Mike.

Truly . Mike is just buying the propaganda being spooned out by the media . And , frankly , being spewed by many conservative pundits
The spin is that Putin thought this would be a walk in the park , no knows this . Nor do we really know the status of the conflict, other than that people are being killed at a massive rate

 

[miamimike]

Truly . Mike is just buying the propaganda being spooned out by the media . And , frankly , being spewed by many conservative pundits
The spin is that Putin thought this would be a walk in the park , no knows this . Nor do we really know the status of the conflict, other than that people are being killed at a massive rate

Putin thought the invasion would be a three-day excursion at most and Russian officers who knew the details of the mission thought they would be hailed as conquering heroes, and told their soldiers as much. Russia has been hit unexpectedly hard. It's taken significant losses, including senior officers, critical equipment and supplies. The front is basically static at this point.

 

[ddimaggio]

Putin thought the invasion would be a three-day excursion at most

And you know this how ? Did Vladimir confide in you ? Did you obtain classified documents intercepted from Russia?

This is EXACTLY what I was referring to
It may be true
It’s more likely the spin provided by certain groups .

 

[vivijane]

Imho our best chance will come from Ukraine's Strength. If Putin turns back or is pushed out, China will have a huge problem. They do not react well to embarrassment nor defeat, and Shi might even face a vote of no confidence in backing Putin, as China has had and harbors conflict with Russia over the Sino-Russian boarder ( they even had a mini war over it in 1969 ) As Putin weakens I'll be watching if Shi's/ China's relationship with Russia begins to sour, or does he make a quicker push toward Tiawan ( a big Risk as the World would of could of coalesced in defending the current world order, and the world vs China isn't just risky for Shi it could very well cost him his life 🤞 )

Very interesting , did not look at it like this but it could wake up the world vs these tyrants.....

 

[miamimike]

And you know this how ? Did Vladimir confide in you ? Did you obtain classified documents intercepted from Russia?

This is EXACTLY what I was referring to
It may be true
It’s more likely the spin provided by certain groups .

It's more likely info from captured Russian commanders. Also, a Russian commander captured by Ukraine condemned Moscow's "genocide" invasion, saying in a remarkable televised statement that the troops were duped into believing Kyiv had been overthrown by Nazi's and needed liberating. The Commanders also revealed that they were told by Putin that the invasion would be a three-day excursion at most and that they would be treated like heroes. Ukraine also released the names of more than 100 Russian Prisoners of War captured in the conflict and urged their mothers to come and "take your sons".

 

[KOWBOY88]

Kowboy
1) We know it's not as clean as they think
2) We know we would rely heavily on China for rare earth minerals , EV batteries, solar panels and wind fan panels
3) We know we aren't there yet. Not even close.
4) We know nuclear is very clean source
5) We know we need oil and fossil fuels now and for the forseeable future

I agree

 

[central17]

Interesting article that mixes modern economics and the old testament. I'm not big on modern man predicting times for scripture, but the economic side of the article is far more relevant than the "tough guy" acts by media and politicians. Far more detail than you would ever get from Fox or CNN.

https://www.israel365news.com/26775...-global-food-shortage-the-pre-messiah-famine/