What’s your opinion on raising the minimum wage to fifteen dollars an hour?

[chevytruck20s]

Lol Wal-Mart is getting rich because they conned the shoppers into checking themselves out and getting rid of all the check-our staff..

That’s also why almost every McDonalds now has a self-service screen you order from instead of a real person.

Automation and self service kills minimum wage employees and this process is only expedited when these stupid policies are put into place.

why are they stupid policies? why have any minimum then?

it's to look out for the bottom level people.

the same model truck i bought in 2001 for 21k cost me 38k in 2017. my pay didn't increase by that much.

the same gas i bought for under $1 back then and pay over $2 for now? my salary didn't double since then.

same gallon of milk i paid under $2 for, now is over $3 or $4.

meanwhile the big companies are making more money than they've ever made before. their profits went from 10's of millions to billions of dollars. they make more money while the average worker makes less as a comparison.

and no, i don't come close to making minimum wage. but the point stands. salary has not kept up with inflation and price of goods and services.

 

[Urban307]

There are over 30 million small businesses in the US, 99% of employers. Or I should say after this there were. Small mom and pop store paying someone $10 bucks an hour while the business owner, CEO, accounting, HR, security ( for the non business owner that’s the same person in most small businesses) will either close up shop or cut that persons hours. What socialists don’t understand is if I’m a business owner I don’t look at it that i pay someone 7.50, 10, 20 an hour. I look at my gross and net and operations and then deduce how much I can spend on help. If it’s a $1000 a week and I hire 3 people for 40 hours a week each (8.33 an hour per). If the govt says I have to pay 15 an hour per employee it now becomes 3 employees working 20 hours a week. They aren’t making any more, they are working less. Then as the owner I have to look at is it really worth it to remain in business or do I just pick up the hours myself or cut hours of operation. It solves nothing. In fact it is the perfect example of the unintended consequences of bad legislation.

 

[Urban307]

why are they stupid policies? why have any minimum then?

it's to look out for the bottom level people.

the same model truck i bought in 2001 for 21k cost me 38k in 2017. my pay didn't increase by that much.

the same gas i bought for under $1 back then and pay over $2 for now? my salary didn't double since then.

same gallon of milk i paid under $2 for, now is over $3 or $4.

meanwhile the big companies are making more money than they've ever made before. their profits went from 10's of millions to billions of dollars. they make more money while the average worker makes less as a comparison.

and no, i don't come close to making minimum wage. but the point stands. salary has not kept up with inflation and price of goods and services.

inflation has nothing to do with your salary. Inflation is a function of terrible monetary policy and the weakening of the dollar due to various issues including debt. Problem is the same “leaders” who are dangling this “solution” out there are many of the same ones (both sides of the aisle) that created the original issue.

 

[JCR Cane]

Pretty sure that Raoul has never had to make a Friday payroll or sign the checks like many of us.....

 

[chevytruck20s]

inflation has nothing to do with your salary. Inflation is a function of terrible monetary policy and the weakening of the dollar due to various issues including debt. Problem is the same “leaders” who are dangling this “solution” out there are many of the same ones (both sides of the aisle) that created the original issue.

when you say weakening dollar, what are you basing that on? against other currency?

the dollar has been pretty strong the last several years. just looked at charts against the euro, pound, can dollars and australian dollar. us $ is up on all those since 2005.

 

[Raoul2]

why are they stupid policies? why have any minimum then?

it's to look out for the bottom level people.

the same model truck i bought in 2001 for 21k cost me 38k in 2017. my pay didn't increase by that much.

the same gas i bought for under $1 back then and pay over $2 for now? my salary didn't double since then.

same gallon of milk i paid under $2 for, now is over $3 or $4.

meanwhile the big companies are making more money than they've ever made before. their profits went from 10's of millions to billions of dollars. they make more money while the average worker makes less as a comparison.

and no, i don't come close to making minimum wage. but the point stands. salary has not kept up with inflation and price of goods and services.

This sums it up nicely. Wages have barely budged over the past few decades, while the cost of living, education, healthcare, and many other things have skyrocketed. This results in a lower standard of living for people and eventually leads to social upheaval because average citizens don't feel like the system is working for them.

 

[Urban307]

when you say weakening dollar, what are you basing that on? against other currency?

the dollar has been pretty strong the last several years. just looked at charts against the euro, pound, can dollars and australian dollar. us $ is up on all those since 2005.

buying value of the dollar. While salaries have been relatively stagnant the cost of manufacturing/transportation/production has gone up.

We won’t include the annual spikes in taxes which don’t affect the value of the dollar but limit the spending ability of individuals.

 

[Urban307]

This sums it up nice. Wages have barely budged over the past few decades, while the cost of living, education, healthcare, and many other things have skyrocketed. This results in a lower standard of living for people and eventually leads to social upheaval because average citizens don't feel like the system is working for them.

But you fail to recognize that if a business has had to increase their sale price to offset their costs (yeah ceo pay has gone up but 99% of business is small business which has struggled) then that will be passed along again. Your value as an employee is based upon the product you produce. If you are unskilled and are involved in the service or retail industry then look to be let go when this goes through. Why would I pay 20 cashiers 15 an hour when my business model calls for them to make half that. Much easier to pay 4 of them 15 an hour and buy a bunch of self check out scanners.

 

[honeyiv]

My opinion it hurts those it’s intended to help, and absolutely can devastate small businesses. Unfortunately good intentions sometimes can bring on unwanted consequences. Here’s an article on a few of Biden’s executive orders.

Biden Just Gave $15/Hr Minimum Wage Its Biggest Push Ever with Two Separate Moves Friday

Biden pushed hard for an increase to the minimum wage on Friday, both in a speech and through an executive order.

www.westernjournal.com

As a CPA for 30 years, it will mean nothing. If you own a Subway Sandwich franchise, you will fire the two employees that make $10 an hour and hire one highly motivated(and do I dare say ) smart individual with a good head on his shoulders and good parenting, who will work for $17.50 and get the job done on his own. Now you have two ghetto kids unemployed and a quality employee running the place. And the store will show higher profits.

You cannot legislate intelligence, normalcy or common sense.

 

[sabrose]

My opinion it hurts those it’s intended to help, and absolutely can devastate small businesses. Unfortunately good intentions sometimes can bring on unwanted consequences. Here’s an article on a few of Biden’s executive orders.

Biden Just Gave $15/Hr Minimum Wage Its Biggest Push Ever with Two Separate Moves Friday

Biden pushed hard for an increase to the minimum wage on Friday, both in a speech and through an executive order.

www.westernjournal.com

I understand the sentiment to give everyone a comfortable life. But without incentives and competition the standards of living go down for all. When women entered the workplace the amount of people seeking jobs increased and the wage scale decreased. Now it takes 2 incomes to lead a comfortable life most of the time.
Wages should be determined by the market . Unions are there for a reason . If the minimum wage is raised like this it will cause significant inflation which will erase the gains that their wage increase was supposed to help. it will also decrease jobs as mechanization and self service will increase.

 

[CaneBandit]

That's a trope that frequently gets repeated in conservative circles but its not born out in any research. In fact the latest research shows that there's only a 0.36% rise in costs for every 10% raise in the minimum wage, which is too small to have any tangible effect on consumers. So a 100% rise in the minimum wage from 7.50 to $15 would only result in a 3.6% rise in prices which is negligible relative to the benefit of boosting wages for 17 million people (according to the CBO). So at the end of the day a majority of research shows that there are strong earnings effects and no employment effects of minimum-wage increases.

It’s not a trope, it’s a fact. Take an economics class or two.

 

[CaneBandit]

Nobody wants to cut into business profits, but it's time.

The thoughts of a socialist who never owned a business.

 

[CaneBandit]

Lol Wal-Mart is getting rich because they conned the shoppers into checking themselves out and getting rid of all the check-our staff..

That’s also why almost every McDonalds now has a self-service screen you order from instead of a real person.

Automation and self service kills minimum wage employees and this process is only expedited when these stupid policies are put into place.

Agree. Idiots live in an alt reality.

 

[CaneBandit]

why are they stupid policies? why have any minimum then?

it's to look out for the bottom level people.

the same model truck i bought in 2001 for 21k cost me 38k in 2017. my pay didn't increase by that much.

the same gas i bought for under $1 back then and pay over $2 for now? my salary didn't double since then.

same gallon of milk i paid under $2 for, now is over $3 or $4.

meanwhile the big companies are making more money than they've ever made before. their profits went from 10's of millions to billions of dollars. they make more money while the average worker makes less as a comparison.

and no, i don't come close to making minimum wage. but the point stands. salary has not kept up with inflation and price of goods and services.

Many of you either have poor reading comprehension or refuse to listen/read. No one here says we don’t want a minimum wage, we said not all states have the same cost of living, and due to this, the states should decide thier minimum wage, not the feds. Unlike many on this board, I never lived in one place my entire life, and I can assure you $ goes a lot further in some places than it does for others. For the same job/role, I’ve had significant pay cuts and increases. I’ve been promoted, moved, and then paid the same as my previous location and role. Some of you need to get out more.

 

[CaneBandit]

This sums it up nice. Wages have barely budged over the past few decades, while the cost of living, education, healthcare, and many other things have skyrocketed. This results in a lower standard of living for people and eventually leads to social upheaval because average citizens don't feel like the system is working for them.

Wages have barely budged over the past few decades

This is a lie, Radical Raoul. You keep confusing wages with minimum wages. I asked you to post this data for the last few decades, and now you ignore me as the facts are something you don’t like since the median wage has increase the last two decades.

In fact, under Obama’s policies in his first term when he owned the house and senate, it went lower. We will likely see the same under Biden

 

[CaneBandit]

The companies will just have to adjust since the minimum wage has to go up to keep up with the cost of living.

Your lack of knowledge and ability to do research is astounding. Due to recent polices median wages have caught up with inflation

 

[utatem]

When you are forced to hire a new worker at $15 an hour then you have to raise the wages of employees who have worked for you for a while - so now how much do you pay them ? Someone that’s worked for you for let’s say 3 years is not going to be happy making the same wage as a new hire -

 

[CaneBandit]

When you are forced to hire a new worker at $15 an hour then you have to raise the wages of employees who have worked for you for a while - so now how much do you pay them ? Someone that’s worked for you for let’s say 3 years is not going to be happy making the same wage as a new hire -

This is the socialist way, it no longer matters if you are a good worker or an experienced worker, everyone gets paid the same, get the same things, garbage men get the same salary as doctors, etc,

 

[Allied2651]

This sums it up nice. Wages have barely budged over the past few decades, while the cost of living, education, healthcare, and many other things have skyrocketed. This results in a lower standard of living for people and eventually leads to social upheaval because average citizens don't feel like the system is working for them.

Well, pick yourself up and get a better job! This is not a welfare society for many of us and frankly do not feel the responsibility to change what has existed since recorded times. There will always be haves and have nots. Raoul, it's plain and simple.

 

[Raoul2]

Well, pick yourself up and get a better job! This is not a welfare society for many of us and frankly do not feel the responsibility to change what has existed since recorded times. There will always be haves and have nots. Raoul, it's plain and simple.

No doubt there will always be some degree of haves and have nots, but we are weaker as a society for allowing so many to languish at the bottom end of the spectrum without creating new avenues for them to get out of intergenerational poverty.

 

[CaneBandit]

No doubt there will always be some degree of haves and have nots, but we are weaker as a society for allowing so many to languish at the bottom end of the spectrum without creating new avenues for them to get out of intergenerational poverty.

This is a lie from the radical left. There are plenty of avenues for them, but you won’t research them, and once you find the facts, you’ll ignore them.

 

[Allied2651]

No doubt there will always be some degree of haves and have nots, but we are weaker as a society for allowing so many to languish at the bottom end of the spectrum without creating new avenues for them to get out of intergenerational poverty.

There is more opportunity now than ever before to take yourself out of the generational poverty as you call it. If you are focusing purely on minorities, affirmative action in all areas of business and government have raised the bar for the best and brightest to raise their standard of living with much higher paying jobs. These people earned it. They were given a chance, worked for it, and have moved into middle class America and beyond. Frankly, the playing field has evened out to the point now that it could be debated whether affirmative action is still necessary.

 

[Raoul2]

There is more opportunity now than ever before to take yourself out of the generational poverty as you call it. If you are focusing purely on minorities, affirmative action in all areas of business and government have raised the bar for the best and brightest to raise their standard of living with much higher paying jobs. These people earned it. They were given a chance, worked for it, and have moved into middle class America and beyond. Frankly, the playing field has evened out to the point now that it could be debated whether affirmative action is still necessary.

I look at it this way. The fundamental idea behind the American dream is upward mobility - the ability for people - irrespective of social class; to have a dream, work hard, and in the process have a legitimate shot of achieving a reasonably high quality of life for themselves and their families. Because most of the wealth in our society is coagulated at the very top of the spectrum, the remaining 98 % of the nation are finding it increasingly hard to get ahead in life in the present day. The cost of housing, education, and healthcare have gone up while wages have largely remained flat. This puts a tremendous amount of pressure on people at the bottom to be able to get ahead in life and doing nothing about it exacts a greater long term cost on society than coming up with public policy that aims to bridge the gap.

 

[Allied2651]

I look at it this way. The fundamental idea behind the American dream is upward mobility - the ability for people - irrespective of social class; to have a dream, work hard, and in the process have a legitimate shot of achieving a reasonably high quality of life for themselves and their families. Because most of the wealth in our society is coagulated at the very top of the spectrum, the remaining 98 % of the nation are finding it increasingly hard to get ahead in life in the present day. The cost of housing, education, and healthcare have gone up while wages have largely remained flat. This puts a tremendous amount of pressure on people at the bottom to be able to get ahead in life and doing nothing about it exacts a greater long term cost on society than coming up with public policy that aims to bridge the gap.

Your missing the point. A tremendous amount has been done through Affirmative Action programs started back in the Kennedy administration. While it has done a lot for minorities it has caused reverse discrimination. A price has been paid all along to bring up the standard of living for those people that had the ability and desire to improve themselves. The price has been those qualified non minorities that did not get those jobs due to quotas. Nothing more needs to be done.

 

[CaneBandit]

I look at it this way. The fundamental idea behind the American dream is upward mobility - the ability for people - irrespective of social class; to have a dream, work hard, and in the process have a legitimate shot of achieving a reasonably high quality of life for themselves and their families. Because most of the wealth in our society is coagulated at the very top of the spectrum, the remaining 98 % of the nation are finding it increasingly hard to get ahead in life in the present day. The cost of housing, education, and healthcare have gone up while wages have largely remained flat. This puts a tremendous amount of pressure on people at the bottom to be able to get ahead in life and doing nothing about it exacts a greater long term cost on society than coming up with public policy that aims to bridge the gap.

Holy shit, we’ve gone full circle for you to say something we all agree with that wealthy people have it much easier than others. You’ve now graduated from 5th grade economics, Radical Raoul!

 

[Raoul2]

Your missing the point. A tremendous amount has been done through Affirmative Action programs started back in the Kennedy administration. While it has done a lot for minorities it has caused reverse discrimination. A price has been paid all along to bring up the standard of living for those people that had the ability and desire to improve themselves. The price has been those qualified non minorities that did not get those jobs due to quotas. Nothing more needs to be done.

Affirmative action is a different subject. Many of these initiatives are not meant to engage in 'reverse discrimination', but to even out the playing field after centuries of discrimination that created a lopsided disparity between races and classes of citizens. Therefore (back to the original topic) the entire purpose of raising wages is to help those affected (irrespective of race or background) achieve greater social mobility.

 

[Allied2651]

Affirmative action is a different subject. Many of these initiatives are not meant to engage in 'reverse discrimination', but to even out the playing field after centuries or discrimination that created a lopsided disparity between races and classes of citizens. Therefore (back to the original topic) the entire purpose of raising wages is to help those affected (irrespective of race or background) achieve greater social mobility.

Without working for it. Through a hand out. That's what you're getting at. Something I would never subscribe to.

 

[Urban307]

For those who are supportive of the raised minimum wage, what is your stance then on the attack on energy which will undoubtedly lead to $4-5 gas prices and 3.50-4.50 home heating oil? Is that not a tax on the poor? The inflation this leads to......if a gallon of gas goes up 30-40% the delivery/manufacturing of goods will match this. It wasn’t until the Obama era negative energy policies and our dependence on oil from countries who hate us, did I begin seeing “delivery surcharges” on invoices. The price of bread, milk, meats, textiles, etc will all go up. The workers making 18-40 an hour will all demand raises to keep up with The created inflation which will impact their quality of life. So in reality all you’ve done is increased the cost of things. The unemployed or underemployed (those making $15 an hour but now only work a few hours a week and not making as much weekly) will continue to get crushed along with the middle class. The billionaire class will stretch their income even further (we will undoubtedly see the first trillionaire in the next 5-10 years).

 

[grbcane]

For those who are supportive of the raised minimum wage, what is your stance then on the attack on energy which will undoubtedly lead to $4-5 gas prices and 3.50-4.50 home heating oil? Is that not a tax on the poor? The inflation this leads to......if a gallon of gas goes up 30-40% the delivery/manufacturing of goods will match this. It wasn’t until the Obama era negative energy policies and our dependence on oil from countries who hate us, did I begin seeing “delivery surcharges” on invoices. The price of bread, milk, meats, textiles, etc will all go up. The workers making 18-40 an hour will all demand raises to keep up with The created inflation which will impact their quality of life. So in reality all you’ve done is increased the cost of things. The unemployed or underemployed (those making $15 an hour but now only work a few hours a week and not making as much weekly) will continue to get crushed along with the middle class. The billionaire class will stretch their income even further (we will undoubtedly see the first trillionaire in the next 5-10 years).

I was thinking of bringing this up, but was afraid I’d take away from the discussion. You are a hundred percent correct on this. Canceling the Keystone pipeline, and increasing the federal gas tax will have devastating effects on those making the minimum wage.

 

[newnangacane]

The thoughts of a socialist who never owned a business.

I've owned a business for 25 years, a home in Miami and Atlanta. As always you don't know what your talking about.

 

[CaneBandit]

I've owned a business for 25 years, a home in Miami and Atlanta. As always you don't know what your talking about.

This is a lie. No business owner would advocate for rules that would put them out if business. Here in Carrollton, GA $15/hr is way too much.

 

[Raoul2]

For those who are supportive of the raised minimum wage, what is your stance then on the attack on energy which will undoubtedly lead to $4-5 gas prices and 3.50-4.50 home heating oil? Is that not a tax on the poor? The inflation this leads to......if a gallon of gas goes up 30-40% the delivery/manufacturing of goods will match this. It wasn’t until the Obama era negative energy policies and our dependence on oil from countries who hate us, did I begin seeing “delivery surcharges” on invoices. The price of bread, milk, meats, textiles, etc will all go up. The workers making 18-40 an hour will all demand raises to keep up with The created inflation which will impact their quality of life. So in reality all you’ve done is increased the cost of things. The unemployed or underemployed (those making $15 an hour but now only work a few hours a week and not making as much weekly) will continue to get crushed along with the middle class. The billionaire class will stretch their income even further (we will undoubtedly see the first trillionaire in the next 5-10 years).

Why do you think gasoline prices will go up so sharply ? We are the world's number one producer of oil by some distance and import much of our usage from Canada (without the the Keystone pipeline) and yet have been enjoying very low gas prices for some time due to the shale revolution. Therefore, its hard to make a cogent argument that gas prices will go up in any meaningful way.

 

[newnangacane]

If your a good business man you make profit and can afford it. Go back to your trailer.

This is a lie. No business owner would advocate for rules that would put them out if business. Here in Carrollton, GA $15/hr is way too much.

 

[CaneBandit]

If your a good business man you make profit and can afford it. Go back to your trailer.

This confirms you’ve never run a business. Not all margins are equal in different industries. Demand is not equal in different regions in the same industry. Clueless, but expected from a radical

 

[Urban307]

Why do you think gasoline prices will go up so sharply ? We are the world's number one producer of oil by some distance and import much of our usage from Canada (without the the Keystone pipeline) and yet have been enjoying very low gas prices for some time due to the shale revolution. Therefore, its hard to make a cogent argument that gas prices will go up in any meaningful way.

Estimates of 10-15% of all fracking is done on federal land.

The regulations that Trump loosened on oil exploration and development will be tightened heavily. Look at who is writing Biden’s regulations for him.

And we will be at war back in the Middle East before the end of the summer. There is money to be made by going to war and both sides of DC know that.

There are other reasons, but it’s Sunday and I have other things to do right now.

 

[Raoul2]

Estimates of 10-15% of all fracking is done on federal land.

The regulations that Trump loosened on oil exploration and development will be tightened heavily. Look at who is writing Biden’s regulations for him.

And we will be at war back in the Middle East before the end of the summer. There is money to be made by going to war and both sides of DC know that.

There are other reasons, but it’s Sunday and I have other things to do right now.

Canada is the United States' major producer and supplier of oil and that source isn't going away anytime soon, so even if we slow down on shale, that won't affect the supply coming in from Canada.

On the Middle East piece, the way to end reliance on OPEC is to gradually disengage from fossil fuels altogether and shift into clean energy. Places like the UAE, Qatar, and Saudi know that oil is slowly going away, which is why they are racing to diversify their own economies so they don't get hit as hard when clean energy / renewables take over.

 

[Urban307]

Canada is the United States' major producer and supplier of oil and that source isn't going away anytime soon, so even if we slow down on shale, that won't affect the supply coming in from Canada.

On the Middle East piece, the way to end reliance on OPEC is to gradually disengage from fossil fuels altogether and shift into clean energy. Places like the UAE, Qatar, and Saudi know that oil is slowly going away, which is why they are racing to diversify their own economies so they don't get hit as hard when clean energy / renewables take over.

what is clean energy? Lithium based battery systems? No matter what clean energy you go to you need storage and that is some of the most environmentally destructive materials around. Wait in 10-15 years when all these EV batteries need replacement and the old ones need to be dumped somewhere.

Canada? We just shit all over them costing them billions and thousands of jobs.

as far as the Middle East? There is more riding on that front geo-politically then just oil.....or so we will be told as to why we go back to war. (But a little hint, never look at our military expenses, look at those who go in after and make $ cleaning it up. See who’s making the money and where it flows to.).

 

[Raoul2]

what is clean energy? Lithium based battery systems? No matter what clean energy you go to you need storage and that is some of the most environmentally destructive materials around. Wait in 10-15 years when all these EV batteries need replacement and the old ones need to be dumped somewhere.

Canada? We just shit all over them costing them billions and thousands of jobs.

as far as the Middle East? There is more riding on that front geo-politically then just oil.....or so we will be told as to why we go back to war. (But a little hint, never look at our military expenses, look at those who go in after and make $ cleaning it up. See who’s making the money and where it flows to.).

Its an umbrella term for renewable energy

Clean Energy

Clean Energy

www.energy.gov

 

[grbcane]

Those rolling blackouts in California sure work well.

 

[Urban307]

Its an umbrella term for renewable energy

Clean Energy

Clean Energy

www.energy.gov

do a little research beyond what the catch words mean. Renewable energy is decades away from being even remotely an option. The biggest issue of all, whether it is solar, wind, hydro, etc is how do you store a high percentage of electricity that is generated? Battery cell technology is in its infancy. The byproduct of the current technology is what do you do with all the battery cells when they are at their life span?

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

this is only 3 million. Imagine when there are 100+ million EVs on the road in the US. Imagine when the battery cells from other forms of “renewable” energy meet their life span. That’s a lot of concentrated chemicals/materials to find a use for.

listen I am a fan of the potential of renewable energy. I have my order in for the Tesla Cybertruck, though I’ll be keeping my Suburban and Chevy 2500HD. But back to the original discussion, Biden has already tipped his hand. His energy policies will lead to increase costs as will his minimum wage policy will cause un and underemployment to rise considerably.

One thing that legislators look at is the intended consequence of their idea. One thing they never look at is the unintended consequences. That’s why for every law we have hundreds if not thousands of additional regulations to clarify, appease, undo, the original legislation.