Roe v Wade is over turned
- Thread starter HJCane
- Start date
Should it really be up to us who gets to live, it sounds like you would have written these three girls off?
Abortion survivors, in wake of Supreme Court ruling, reveal their 'trauma' but rejoice in a 'new dawn'
Three women who survived their mothers' abortion attempts spoke to "Fox and Friends Weekend" in the wake of the Supreme Court's landmark abortion ruling on June 24, 2022.
Well what did you think? Once Roe v Wade was overturned and RETURNED to the States the State Laws on the books kick back in.
This tells me that these States did not write abortion laws when THEY COULD HAVE!
Many will convene their legislators and write laws, some will not.
FLORIDA
What DeSantis is saying:Florida will 'work to expand pro-life protections' after fall of Roe v. Wade
The Florida Constitution also has a unique right to privacy that the state Supreme Court interpreted more than 30 years ago to extend to abortion. While some abortion rights advocates worry the increasingly conservative panel of justices will overturn that precedent, it remains the law of the land until the court rules otherwise.
Is abortion still legal in Florida?
Yes.Until July 1, Floridians seeking an abortion can obtain one within 24 weeks of pregnancy. Then, a new law will go into effect banning the procedure after 15 weeks. Unlike some states — including Arkansas, Mississippi and Texas — Florida doesn’t have a so-called trigger law on the books that would ban abortion almost immediately after Roe v. Wade is overturned.
HJ,
Question re effects of anti abortion moves in Florida and Texas.
Economic question here: do you think the more aggressive anti abortion legislation coming in Florida and Texas will slow the migration of companies and highly skilled employees to those states? I do.
ex. say you’re a 30 year old female PhD from Stanford with top job offers at high tech or leading financial companies in Texas, Florida and California. Will the newly strong anti abortion positions discourage your migration out of California? I think it will ….an unforeseen consequence that will injure economic growth.
What do you think?
Why would the abortion law situation affect a female 30 year PhD ?
How is that even a consideration ?
She likely would be more concerned with the educational system available to her kids
Or the crime rate .
Is she likely to get pregnant accidentally? Nope
If in the extremely unlikely event she does become pregnant and wants to terminate the pregnancy, she can hop on a jet , fly to California or NY , get an abortion, do some shopping, sightseeing etc, and be back in Florida in a day or so
Meanwhile there is no absolute prohibition in Florida, it’s still unresolved legislatively.
Lobby the legislature. Vote .
Or picket the homes of SCOTUS justices
Cortez,
Very good question. It brings the focus back to where it should be. That the US was founded as a constitutional republic. Not all states were expected to be the same. And that is a question that the hypothetical Stanford PHD will weigh along with economic issues, weather, proximety to family, lifestyle and many other factors in where she chooses to live. And that is her right. What is not right is for California and New York to impose their views on smaller states like Arkansas, South Dakota, Utah, etc.
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Allied and 17,
Thanks for your responses. As to my hypothetical about a 30 year old female PhD:
*allied, I think you are being a bit literal on the abortion issue. Of course, she could fly anywhere and get an abortion. No problem. The greater issue: does she want to live in a state where legislative leaders restrict and intervene in the decisions of women of child bearing age?
*ex. I have a female cousin with a doctorate in the medical field from Stanford. Her husband is a high tech battery engineer working on electrical flying vehicles. They work in the Stanford neighborhood. She would like the city of Austin but would vehemently refuse to locate to a state governed by a Governor like Gov Abbott. Why? She sees him as an older white guy determined to impose his ideological and religious beliefs on women. Further, his aggression against immigrants and pro gun stance are a total turnoff.
*The point: as states like Texas and Florida try to attract high tech businesses and professionals to relocate there, will GOP activism by state leaders on abortion, guns, immigration, etc discourage the very people they want to attract?
Your thoughts?
Thanks.
The issue of abortion is not based on ideological nor religious lines. It is based on science that did not exist when Roe became the law of the land in 1973. At 12 weeks of pregnancy the unborn already have a head, mouth, arms, feet and a beating heart. And it can feel pain. That has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. And today there is birth control that didn't exist in 1973.
The 2nd amendment is not absolute. You can't own a hand grenade, mortar or bazooka. But it does allow a law abiding citizen to own and bear arms. And now the Supreme Court has ruled that such a citizen, with a special permit, can carry a gun outside the home. I see nothing wrong with this. Nobody is being forced to pack and carry.
As far as immigration, this country has immigration laws that aren't being enforced. In 2021 around 2 million people from 160 countries illegally crossed our Southern border. The vast majority of them were not vetted. We don't know who most of them are and the Biden Administration flew them all over the country. Biden and the Democrats believe in open borders. The rest of the country do not. And people forget that this country allows for 1 million LEGAL immigrants to enter every year, which is the most of any country in the world.
I think your cousin is better suited living in a progressive state such as California, New York or Illinois.
very thoughtful, Tiv.
Then, if you are Florida or Texas authorities trying to attract people and companies to relocate there, how do you answer their concerns?
fyi, My cousin is real but she is not a progressive. She and her husband are business oriented entrepreneurs. She just doesn’t want govt officials telling her what to do. She would support libertarian conservatives but not right wing or religious ideologues.
Florida and Texas are flowing away from their backgrounds as non interventional states towards governmental interference with personal freedoms. No Bueno.
Then, if you are Florida or Texas authorities trying to attract people and companies to relocate there, how do you answer their concerns?
fyi, My cousin is real but she is not a progressive. She and her husband are business oriented entrepreneurs. She just doesn’t want govt officials telling her what to do. She would support libertarian conservatives but not right wing or religious ideologues.
Florida and Texas are flowing away from their backgrounds as non interventional states towards governmental interference with personal freedoms. No Bueno.
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Cortez,
You describe your cousin as a rabid partitsan progressive who puts their politics very high in their life's priorities, That is her perogative, Once again, it is reasonable that different areas of the country have different norms. Just please be respectful that others norms may differ from yours.
You appear fixated that somehow "abortion on demand" is a lifestyle that most high earners aspire to. The recent pattern of highly skilled and compensated individuals and companies relocating to Florida, Texas and other red states provides evidence to the contrary of your opinion. I am sure someone as intelligent as your cousin and spouse are likely to be able to figure out birth control, or notice (3) missed periods, then make a decision on if they want an early abortion within Florida law of within 15 weeks.
It is possible that California, Illinois and New York might benefit from "Abortion vacations". Have read that with some companies offering paid time off and up to $5K for travel and lodging for abortions, that some are thinking that a quick early abortion (3 weeks) might be worth a luxury long weekend vacation in The City by the Bay or the Big Apple? So yes, there might be a small economic benefit for some blue vacation destinations.
You describe your cousin as a rabid partitsan progressive who puts their politics very high in their life's priorities, That is her perogative, Once again, it is reasonable that different areas of the country have different norms. Just please be respectful that others norms may differ from yours.
You appear fixated that somehow "abortion on demand" is a lifestyle that most high earners aspire to. The recent pattern of highly skilled and compensated individuals and companies relocating to Florida, Texas and other red states provides evidence to the contrary of your opinion. I am sure someone as intelligent as your cousin and spouse are likely to be able to figure out birth control, or notice (3) missed periods, then make a decision on if they want an early abortion within Florida law of within 15 weeks.
It is possible that California, Illinois and New York might benefit from "Abortion vacations". Have read that with some companies offering paid time off and up to $5K for travel and lodging for abortions, that some are thinking that a quick early abortion (3 weeks) might be worth a luxury long weekend vacation in The City by the Bay or the Big Apple? So yes, there might be a small economic benefit for some blue vacation destinations.
Isn't that the risk? Any State that someone doesn't want to live in due to political policies will either adjust their policies or they won't .
This is how it is already.
While I enjoy going to NYC and California, I wouldn't want to live there (unless I was so loaded that financially it didn't matter) It's generally policies that keep people moving in or out.
I would hardly call a trip to have an abortion a vacation but I get your point.
And yet the Supreme Court made no decision on the science of Abortion.
The case centered on whether Mississippi could restrict abortions to the first 15 weeks.
Because it was a clinic suing a State and the State argued that in their State this is what they want, the court simply said " we have no power here." In other words you States figure out what your voters want.
Leave us out of it.
I generally agree with you and didn't intend to minimize the trauma for most women. But I have seen a subset of young women that view early term abortion (aka not showing) as not much more than having a wart removed. Sad but true, have seen it with my own eyes.
17,
huh? I explicitly described my cousin as a business oriented entrepreneur who is not a progressive. Yet, you describe her as a “rabid, partisan progressive.” WTF?
She is pro women’s rights who doesn’t want a bunch of old white guys in Austin or Tallahassee telling women what to do. She is pro gun safety as she doesnt want her two elementary school sons shot up.
Doe that make her rabid?
I do... and I'm thankful that women now have the right to vote.
However, abortion was NOT written into the Constitution or amended to include it later. A Supreme Court ruling was made that set the precedent. That ruling has now been overturned.
"Women's Rights" DOES NOT include giving them the right to take a life whenever they want to. "My Body My Choice" insinuates that a woman has a choice in regard to what they wish to do with their bodies. Perhaps that should include contraception, birth control and/or abstinence. The fact that a woman can walk into an abortion clinic at upto 24 weeks pregnant and abort the human life that is growing inside them is as close to Sharia Law as I can imagine.
What we're seeing is a temper tantrum. It seems the triggered women of America are now REALLY upset that they have to be a little bit responsible for their actions. Its a difficult concept to grasp in America today... thanks LARGELY to the socialist programs and agenda's that have been pushed by the Democrats over the past 30 years... irresponsible actions have consequences. Have sex with a dude with no protection and the consequence of your actions could mean that you'll have a baby. Pretty simple shit. Your body... your choice.
The rub here is when a woman is raped or abused... which is why the States need to enact legislation to figure out the best way to move forward as a society for their State. We cant have women running around accusing men of rape (more than they already are) just so they can get an abortion. Laws need to be crafted and set in place so people can know how to conduct themselves and their actions.
Then, people can continue to utilize their American freedoms to move to whichever State they feel most align with their beliefs. Kind of like it's always been.
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Interracial marriages and birth control are not written in the constitution. Will they be next to fall? Same for same sex marriages.
Exactly. The Left is claiming that this ruling banned abortion nationwide. It did not. It simply left the abortion issue up to the individual states according to what the voters in that state want.
It was the Supreme Court that made same sex marriage the law of the land in 2015. And the majority of the Supreme Court in the abortion issue explicitly said that this ruling affected abortion only. It would not affect in the least the other issues that you mentioned.
That's just fear mongering by the Democrats.
Just the opposite is happening cortez. Both people and corporations are flocking to states like Florida and Texas, respectively because of the low crime rate, because they are not teaching critical race theory to our children, they aren't sexualizing our children, and those states aren't forcing babies as young as 6 months to take the COVID vaccine, among other things.
Both Florida and Texas gained another seat in the electoral college while progressive states such as California, Illinois and New York all lost a seat. People are moving out of those states in record numbers mostly due to burdensome government regulations and a very high crime rate.
I can't think of a single time that when speaking to a friend or business colleague about relocation, that the state's Governor came up. Many issues, but never heard eg. have an offer in Georgia - I Love/Hate Governor Kemp. Yes, its puts her in a small "rabid" minority, but again she is entitled to her opinion and her right to choose where she wants to live. The same way that the citizens of various states deserve the right to make there own laws on most matters, not have a bunch of old libby loons in DC telling them what to do.
You just speak to different people than I do. I was approached about a job in the coastal area of Virginia back in the day. Lived in Florida at the time. I declined to interview as I had no interest in being in a locale packed with Navy retirees and actively conservative churches. Not my culture.
Similarly, as Tiv mentioned, many on here would never move to Cali or NY because of their personal mismatch with the prevailing culture. I get it. Not their culture.
But to call someone “rabid” cuz their values are not yours? Over the top, 17.
I'd move to Cali in a heartbeat if the job was right. I didn't land in GA because I was looking for a certain "culture". My wife and I worked for Delta and this was the place to be. Miami is always home. LOL cortez, do you really think people always base where they live on "culture"?
Actually as it pertains to Same Sex marriages there are protections in the constitution. Marriage in America grants certain benefits (public benefits) that only married couples receive. Taxes are generally lower as are certain insurance policies. Estate issues come into play as well. So it was completely unfair and inequitable to prevent people from attaining those same PUBLIC benefits that only marriage grants.
Obama early on only favored CIVIL UNIONS ( as did many) so that these benefits could be realized by same sex partners.
I'm glad this was brought up because it illustrates the PROGRESS in this Country while so many claim we have made none.
You appear to assign a different meaning to "rabid" than I. To me it means "extremely committed to a subject or cause". I would say that most on this board are "rabid" Canes fans. It was not meant as an insult. But I will say that in my business circles, political subjects are not primary. I have many demo friends. We typically agree on the economy and agree to avoid social subjects. You and your cousin are probably in a group of less than 10%. If Apple or Google want to make me an offer I can't refuse - California here I come. We can be neighbors 😎.
You didn't address any of my points. As you may or may not know, abortion was ruled legal based on the due process clause of the 14th amendment. The recent court decision nullified Roe v Wade indicating the original decision by the court was in error based on their incorrect interpretation of the due process clause in the 14th amendment.
The same interpretation is used today to justify same sex marriages, birth control and interracial marriages. Justice Thomas in his opinion, argued the Court should reexamine other rights such as same sex marriages and birth control. He conveniently didn't mention interracial marriage due to his own marital situation.
Actually, Justice Thomas, in his solo concurring opinion, argued the Court should reexamine what other rights are protected under the due process clause of the 14th amendment. These rights include same sex marriage, interracial marriage and contraception. Do research before posting nonsense.
But as a result, some states have banned abortion. These states had trigger laws that automatically banned abortion when the Supreme Court nullified Roe v Wade. Take a look.
"These states have outlawed abortion now that Roe v. Wade is overturned - The Washington Post" https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/24/abortion-state-laws-criminalization-roe/
Dictionary says that rabid means:
*”extreme or fanatical support of or belief in something.”
*”affected with rabies”.
Guess I interpret those words as more extreme than you do.
The ”cousin” I mentioned has a sister who has worked at Google for 15 years. Should I put in a good word for you? 😜
Wrong. Justice Alito, in his ruling handed down last Friday, specifically mentioned that that the decision would affect Roe v Wade only and that would not affect the other issues you mentioned.
Thomas would be the only Judge that would reexamine the issues you mentioned. The only one. None of them would be overturned.
@Tiv @rkrantz @HJCane @central17 @ddimaggio "The unborn are a convenient group to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted or the chronically poor; they dont resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows , they dont ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans ; they dont need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they dont bring all that racial , cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them , because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn, and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power or privilege, without reimagining social structures. apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus , but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick, The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.
Written by Methodist Pastor David Barnhart
Written by Methodist Pastor David Barnhart
How the hell did you escape abortion? You are a perfect example of how Pro Choice screwed up. Go back to your leper colony fool.
So now youre attacking Lepers??? because they cant fight back?? Precisely why I included the previous post. How convenient, for you they are disabled.
And all of the Justices appointed by Trump said, Roe v Wade was settled law. They all lied.
No I'm not saying you or any family members have rabies. Now some of the protestors,,,,,,?
What the hell does this have to do with anything?
You must have me confused.
I'm not standing on a hypocritical soap box... I leave that to Democrats since they are the experts there.
I'm talking about LAW and Constitutional rights. There is NO Constitutional right for abortion.
There also is no BAN on abortion either.
So... Left Wing idiots are rioting and protesting for NOTHING. Absolutely N.O.T.H.I.N.G.
Nothings has changed. Abortion is still LEGAL. It's now upto the States to decide what they see best for their residents.
Freedom! It's a beautiful thing.
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And now we have to go through the process of democracy. Could have started 50 years ago and been put to rest . One would hope that the all or nothing politicians on both sides would listen to the people.
No the majority doesn’t want a complete ban
No the majority doesn’t want abortion up to the last day
time to act like the greatest democracy and respect each other’s opinions and find a acceptable solution.
That article from the Toilet Paper Post is an absolute joke.
Go thru and count how many times the words "might" or "could" or "may" or "possibly" or "likely" are printed.
Absolute irresponsible journalism. And everything that is wrong with our country right now.
No facts. Just emotion.
America... the best reality TV show on right now. 🙄
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