Dems are moving further left.
- Thread starter Cane919
- Start date
Not Cems but I'll weigh in. My answer is yes I'm concerned with people like the woman in New York being representatives of the party. Way too far left in my opinion. Open borders, Medicare for everyone etc. I'm not down with that and I think most Democrats aren't down with that. Are there some that are? Absolutely. Probably only 10% are that extreme.
Now let me ask you. Are you concerned with the alt right/racist/fascist sect of your party?
Yes I am. I believe the far right and far left have the loudest voices and yet represent the minority in each party. That said, much like the Tea Party tried to move the Pubs to far to the right, I believe the new challenge to our democracy stems from the Socialist attempting to take over the Dems. It's especially concerning in that the likely democratic representative in 2016 was Bernie, a devout socialist who would have won save the interference of the DNC and Hillary working together.
Here's where I stand.
- We need to decrease the influence of money in politics.....that Supreme Court ruling a few years ago unleashed the fat cats on our political system
- We should empower ordinary people in workplaces and the economy to improve their overall standing......I believe in unions to protect the lowest on the totem pole
- I'm a strong believer in a democratic society......strong believer in capitalism
- I believe in strong borders but am open to immigration policies that align with our creed on the statue of liberty
I somehow find this hard to believe cems but I tell you what, I’m going to take you at your word on it, as I truly want to believe you would not lie to me.
QUOTE="cems52, post: 2128630, member: 3482"]Here's where I stand.
QUOTE="cems52, post: 2128630, member: 3482"]Here's where I stand.
- We need to decrease the influence of money in politics.....that Supreme Court ruling a few years ago unleashed the fat cats on our political system
- We should empower ordinary people in workplaces and the economy to improve their overall standing......I believe in unions to protect the lowest on the totem pole
- I'm a strong believer in a democratic society......strong believer in capitalism
- I believe in strong borders but am open to immigration policies that align with our creed on the statue of liberty
The last two items to be specific, but again I’ll take you at your word for it, as it doesn’t matter either way.
So you got me thinking and I took a closer look at the 2016 primaries. Shockingly Bernie, a devout Socialist, won 43% of the vote and 23 states. Now I certainly don’t think 43% of the Dems are socialist, but I do think they’re shifting further and further left, enamoured by the redistribution of wealth.
Now you're questioning if I believe in our democracy or capitalism? My entire life has been focused on obtaining the American dream by working hard to do so. I've owned businesses and worked for fortune 500 companies.
My posts in this Lounge are about preserving our democracy because there is a serious attack on it now courtesy of Trump. I will continue to point out the behavior of Trump who threatens this democracy.
My views on immigration have never changed. Who in their right mind would want a border that is porous and potentially lets in people that want to do us harm. However, I do believe in a fair immigration policy that allows folks in regardless of their financial standing. This country was built by folks who literally had nothing when they came here. Give me that person who is willing to work hard versus a person who already has it all.
I think a few things contributed to that number. Number 1 he was facing probably the most unpopular politician in America. There are a lot of Democrats that have had it with the Clinton machine. So that certainly contributed. Secondly, lots of young idealistic voters supported him. People that don't realize that Medicare for all and free college for all is just not wise or doable. Third, Sanders' anti-trade message resonated with a lot of people as well. It was actually very similar to trump in that regard.
So I agree that we have a hard left element but I would argue that the 43% number is inflated especially due to who he was running against. And I think you will always have that younger element of the party that is very idealistic but don't understand the ramifications of some of those policies. I think as those people get older and wiser their belief system will change.
Well said I agree. I truly believe that 90% of people could agree on fiscal policy. Were we have a big gap is the social policy's.
See this is why we can't get anywhere in immigration debates. Just because dems disagree with Trump does not mean we support open borders. Obama had the presidency, the house, and a super majority in the Senate during his first two years. If the party wanted open borders they would have done it then. And let's not forget that Obama deported over 2 million people during his presidency. So the whole Democrats want open borders is nonsense. Do we have a few people that are extreme? Absolutely. But it's not something that the vast majority of dems believe in.
Haha. No 90% of people will never agree on pretty much anything nevermind fiscal policy.
Disagree I'm not making that up that is what the democrats are saying. We have laws that are not being in forced. Look at all the Democratic city's and states that are sanctuaries for people that are here illegally. That is just a fact.President Trump wants immigration to be done by law and legal entry . Democrats want open borders if not then why not one vote from democrats on the boarder?
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disagree again most people just want good jobs and room to better themselves and there family. I think we can all agree on this.The problem that comes in play is a large percent thinks it should be given to them by government. And the other large precent believes free enterprise and capitalism will provide the best results. I lean to the free enterprise and capitalism.
Yep, like I said I don’t the real number is 43%, and certainly agree with you in that to youth, free sounds idea, but that 43% is not that easily explained. The recent primary elections show a continuation of that far left idealism and with every state we see the left selecting more socialist as their reps. It’s some5hing I would have never dreamed possible but here we are.
What Democrats are saying they want an open border? And what law is not being enforced? And the fact that illegals reside in big cities has nothing to do with open borders. They want to live in areas with diversity and opportunities. They don't want to live in places with no diversity or opportunity. And frankly they aren't welcome in those places. So yes they tend to want to live in larger cities that don't treat them like they are aliens from another planet.
But let's get back to your main talking points. What Democrats want open borders and what law are you talking about that is not being enforced?
Yeah and your party elected a guy that David Duke endorsed. Perhaps its a problem on both ends of the spectrum.
And it's not every state. Not every Democrat is a socialist and I highly doubt you looked into the viewpoints of the candidates throughout the country. The one district in NYC doesn't mean a full fledged socialist movement. Just like 1 or 2 dems wanting an open border doesn't mean its going on the party platform.
Of course we all agree that we want good jobs and room to grow. That's a very generic statement that everyone agrees with. It's very different than agreeing on fiscal policy.
For example I bet you think we can't spend enough on defense. On the other hand, I believe we spend too much. During the Obama years we spent more on defense than the next 7 countries combined. Of course that was never enough for Republicans. Obama was against the troops, which is the standard line. Now under Trump it has gone up even more. I think spending more than the next 7 is plenty. Why do we constantly criticize the government for being inefficient but we don't dare question how efficient the biggest spender of federal dollars is?
I suppose I can look at each of their positions but suffice it to say it starts at the top of the ticket and last I heard Bernie looked like your rep. Do I really need to look for more? Of course the question becomes even more difficult if Bernie is your guy. Do you vote for an avowed socialist or President Trump?
Well last I heard Bernie didn't win. So if you're looking at the top of the ticket that's Hillary. And I'm not sure what you mean by "Bernie is your rep." I don't live in Vermont and I never voted for the man in any election.
As far as the hypothetical who would I vote for it would be Sanders although I disagree on most issues. But I'm fairly confident that he would not be able to pass his most controversial policies like Medicare for all and free college. I'm also fairly confident that he wouldn't do stupid shit like tariffs on our allies, undermining the free press, separating families at the border, try to get Russia back into the G7, publicly doubt our intelligence agencies on the Russia meddling etc. His basic message is to trust nothing that is not favorable to him. I'd rather a guy like Bernie that won't be able to pass his big ticket items versus a guy that literally wants people to believe our press is making stuff up and we have this deep state that is secretly conspiring against Americans. Its total nonsense but obviously you all eat it up. I think its dangerous.
I was referring to his next run.
As for his far left agenda, I wouldn’t be so sure he wouldn’t be able to pass his agenda as he’d have the mandate with the majority behind him and Dems at large hoping for socialized medicine and the distribution of wealth.
Now as for the “stupid stuff” you speak of, I guess it’s a matter of perspective but in the end there’s no denying our country is in a much better position across the board since he took office, granted the left doesn’t like how we got there but anyone who would say the economy isn’t better is lying. The same is true of our foreign policy so I think it really means the real issue is the disdain for our President.
For you that means voting for a socialist who you hope won’t be able to pass anything as to voting for a guy who’s bringing us all prosperity. Or do I have it wrong?
As for his far left agenda, I wouldn’t be so sure he wouldn’t be able to pass his agenda as he’d have the mandate with the majority behind him and Dems at large hoping for socialized medicine and the distribution of wealth.
Now as for the “stupid stuff” you speak of, I guess it’s a matter of perspective but in the end there’s no denying our country is in a much better position across the board since he took office, granted the left doesn’t like how we got there but anyone who would say the economy isn’t better is lying. The same is true of our foreign policy so I think it really means the real issue is the disdain for our President.
For you that means voting for a socialist who you hope won’t be able to pass anything as to voting for a guy who’s bringing us all prosperity. Or do I have it wrong?
Well I just don't agree with your premise that everything has magically gotten great since he took office. The economy was doing great before he took office. As a matter of fact more jobs were created in 2016 than in 2017. That's just one example. And I'll reserve total judgment on the economy until his time is finished. Yes its been good so far but the question is sustainability and how will his policies impact the economy long term. Remains to be seen.
Foreign policy we just disagree. I don't really see anything that he has done that is so wonderful. You can cheer him on about his Kim meeting but the fact of the matter is nothing has come of it yet. Maybe it will but nothing has happened. We disagree on the Iran deal and his own defense secretary disagreed with him on the Iran deal. Of course his supporters love what he did even though most of them know nothing about the deal except that Obama signed it. I'd be happy to discuss that deal with you compared to what the big shot negotiator himself got from north Korea.
His zero tolerance immigration was a disaster. You may have liked it. Most of the country didn't.
So I'm not seeing how anything has dramatically changed for the better. Yeah we all have a little more money in the short term. But other than the tax cut what major legislation has he passed? Healthcare? No. Immigration? No. Infrastructure? No. What big problems have been solved?
So you are presenting me with a false choice of voting for a "socialist" versus someone who is "bringing us all prosperity." You're acting like this is all guaranteed to continue. Let his policies and his mouth continue for a while and we'll see the ramifications. I hope I'm wrong for all of our sake but I doubt it.
Fair enough Lou. We’ll agree to disagree and see how it all turns out.
I hope you guys don’t ever have to make the choice between a socialist or pub, but I honestly fear the lefts turn to the far left is just the premise of what’s yet to come, with that choice coming sooner then later.
Let’s hope for the best!
I hope you guys don’t ever have to make the choice between a socialist or pub, but I honestly fear the lefts turn to the far left is just the premise of what’s yet to come, with that choice coming sooner then later.
Let’s hope for the best!
L
lou your double talking . Simple question? If you came to this country illegally did you break the law ? If you are in his country illegally how are you not breaking the law ?
Not double talking. I'm asking you to back up your claim that dems want open borders. Of course you can't answer because its not true. And yes if you cross the border you are breaking the law. Obama deported 2 million people and obviously trump has picked up where he left off. So again what law is not being enforced?
Of course we all hope for the best. I understand your fear of the far left. Those people have some scary ideas. I think you downplay the extreme right or maybe you don't think they are extreme. The tea baggers make up over 10% of your representatives in the house. Our president is pushing protectionism as an economic policy. Where did that get us in the past? We have an attorney general that's joking and laughing about families getting separated at the border. You think maybe your party is already well on its way to the extreme right?
Your right . I think the Federal government should only be in charge of foreign affairs and protecting the United States . I believe that State Government should govern as the people of that state vote.
i disagree most of the Democrats leadership want open Broaders so they can build a new voter base. They are against the wall, they are against voter ID, and they have turned down any legitimate legislation because of the broader wall .
The pubs definitely have a segment that is extreme and between them and the far left, it’s hard to get anything done in Congress. What makes it worse is the more tolerant members of each side have now chosen to refrain from working with each other in hopes they can gain control. It’s almost funny how incompetent they look, but I’m sure like me, you’re not laughing. It absolutely irritates me to no end to look at any of them knowing their feigned outrage in public is nothing more then for show.
As for the President, I don’t think he’s pushing protectionism at all, rather attempting to balance the scales a bit. Our trade agreements, much like our memberships in NATO and the U.N., Are clearly lopsided with us getting taking. The border issues are a perfect example of the problem we have in government. Everybody wants it fixed, but they’ll be condemned before they’d let the other side look they’d solved it. Of course they’ll sit there and blame the other side but both are to blame. They all stink.
As for the President, I don’t think he’s pushing protectionism at all, rather attempting to balance the scales a bit. Our trade agreements, much like our memberships in NATO and the U.N., Are clearly lopsided with us getting taking. The border issues are a perfect example of the problem we have in government. Everybody wants it fixed, but they’ll be condemned before they’d let the other side look they’d solved it. Of course they’ll sit there and blame the other side but both are to blame. They all stink.
No, Bobby most Dema feel this way. We don’t support the traitor now in the White House selling our country down the river to Russia and their cohorts.
Cems is getting his ass handed to him. He has no clue what “Democratic” socialists are for, then cherry picks parts he “is for” whole bashing others cherry picking part that are counter to his pro-capitalism stance. You can’t make this up.
Again what Democrats want open borders? You can't answer but it's not true. Show me where dems want open borders. You can't do it.
You're right we can't make this up. Like your post which makes no sense. I appreciate you acknowledging I'm "pro-capitalism". You are one dumb____.
So Lou your saying Dems are for boarder control. Sense I am wrong and can not no way be correct that Democrats think open borders are the correct way could you please show me and tell me what the Democrats policy is on illegal immigrants? Republicans policy basically is build a wall to slow down the illegal crossings of people and drugs, have controlled check points and not be able to come to the United States without following the laws that are in place . That is it. You say you do not agree with the far left of your party but then you deny the truth about the people crossing the borders illegally. Then let's talk about another very easy way to make sure the people that vote in our election are not here illegally and that is a voter ID. So easy we have to have ID to do any and all other business in the United States why do Democrats leadership fight this ? I guess that is not true either.
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