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Europe hasn't learned a thing from their history of turmoil

HJCane

SuperCane
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Jun 2, 2007
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Every country scrambling to make sure their own interests are protected when it comes to Sanctions on Russia. Take Germany, although warned by Trump and I'm sure others within their own Government, they allowed themselves to become dependent on Russia for oil and Natural Gas (LNG) look below at chart 32% of LNG from Russia AND they let their storage capacity go down. So they don't want sanctions on Russian oil & gas. Worth noting we have had 25-40, 000 troops in Germany for decades to protect them from............Russia.


Then yesterday at a time when Poland is taking in an unprecedented amount of refugees nearly 1.5 million, the European Parliament a body that represents the EU member states and is largely very LIBERAL votes to BLOCK FUNDS FROM POLAND and HUNGARY for RULE OF LAW VIOLATORS. TO WITHHOLD FUNDS TO THOSE COUNTRIES WHO FAIL TO RESPECT THE RULE OF LAW>

Poland had to call on the body "to immediatley disburse COVID relief funds withheld by the Parliament" so they can deal with the refugee situation.

In the resolution adopted today – with 478 votes in favour and 155 against – the European Parliament welcomed the recent decision by the European Court of Justice (ECJ) to reject an attempt by Poland and Hungary to prevent EU funds from being made conditional on respect for the rule of law.

The parliament declared that it was now “high time” for the European Commission to “react to the ongoing violations of the rule of law in some EU member states, which pose a danger to the European Union’s financial interests”.

It called on the commission to initiate use of the conditionality mechanism by notifying the concerned member states in writing. The measures should be applied to both the general EU budget and to the EU’s Covid recovery package, said the parliament.

Yesterday, the European Conservatives and Reformists – a group in which PiS is the dominant force – had tabled an amendment calling for the rule-of-law mechanism not to be applied due to the war in Ukraine and the pandemic. It also called for the EU to unblock Covid funds, which have been frozen for Poland over rule-of-law concerns.

After that amendment was rejected, its author, PiS MEP Bogdan Rzońca, said that “the left-liberal European Parliament has shown Putin that there is no solidarity within the EU and that he can harass and scare the countries that border Ukraine”, reports TVP Info


So the message to Russia is that the EU can not even get along. Please note CONSERVATIVES in the Parliament wanted all of this tabled due to the War but just like AMERICA the LEFT WING LOONS over there voted to sanction Poland and Hungary and holdback sorely needed funds.

Of course, they will now call America for more money.

I say, LET EUROPE PONY UP!!

They haven't learned a thing.
 
Leftists in this country keep trying to emulate Europe which has a sordid history ,especially in the 20th century, pushing socialism and soccer down our throats and denigrating American heroes is typical for them. The USA has been the bastion of freedom for the world since 1776 and its up to todays Americans to keep it that way as the cancel culture and leftist fascism starts to breathe life here. The biggest violation of the Constitution was slavery but 600,000 people died in the Civil War because of that.
"A country that gives up liberty for security shall have neither".
 
Europe should be "dependent" on Russia for many natural resources. The civilization on the Volga does not have to be an enemy! It's the most resource rich nation state on the planet. It's racially and culturally similar to Europe. Europe has a lot of people, relative to land mass, and very limited natural resources. Russia has very few people, relative to land mass, but enormous reserves of natural resources. It couldn't be more obvious what needs to happen.

The continued hostility, direct sabotage in the case of "The Harvard Boys", via NATO expansion towards Russia post fall of the USSR is madness. There is no reason to have treated them the way the west has for the last 30 years. Rapprochement should have happened, the hostility should have stopped........but war hawks had to have their world empire and it's brought us to our current state of affairs.
 
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The speech by Scott Horton is excellent. The west has been the aggressor and has rebuffed attempts at friendly relations time and again.
You are not going to make many friends here 😄
But Trump was correct . Good relations with Russia is a good thing , so long as we view it as transactional , like a businessman would
Putin has lost his marbles
But much of his anger was brought about by Biden’s actions
Hate of a foreign leader, regardless of their evilness, is not a rational foreign policy strategy
I’m in the minority. Like you
There may be a diplomatic resolution of this tragedy, but it likely would require some concessions
The alternative is a devastated Ukraine.
Yeah the Ukrainians are putting up a great defense
But at what cost
 
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Europe should be "dependent" on Russia for many natural resources. The civilization on the Volga does not have to be an enemy! It's the most resource rich nation state on the planet. It's racially and culturally similar to Europe. Europe has a lot of people, relative to land mass, and very limited natural resources. Russia has very few people, relative to land mass, but enormous reserves of natural resources. It couldn't be more obvious what needs to happen.

The continued hostility, direct sabotage in the case of "The Harvard Boys", via NATO expansion towards Russia post fall of the USSR is madness. There is no reason to have treated them the way the west has for the last 30 years. Rapprochement should have happened, the hostility should have stopped........but war hawks had to have their world empire and it's brought us to our current state of affairs.
Perhaps you are correct but Putin is no angel.
 
You are not going to make many friends here 😄
But Trump was correct . Good relations with Russia is a good thing , so long as we view it as transactional , like a businessman would
Putin has lost his marbles
But much of his anger was brought about by Biden’s actions
Hate of a foreign leader, regardless of their evilness, is not a rational foreign policy strategy
I’m in the minority. Like you
There may be a diplomatic resolution of this tragedy, but it likely would require some concessions
The alternative is a devastated Ukraine.
Yeah the Ukrainians are putting up a great defense
But at what cost
Their entire country and many lives, thats the cost. Putin will not stop until it is leveled.
 
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You are not going to make many friends here 😄
But Trump was correct . Good relations with Russia is a good thing , so long as we view it as transactional , like a businessman would
Putin has lost his marbles
But much of his anger was brought about by Biden’s actions
Hate of a foreign leader, regardless of their evilness, is not a rational foreign policy strategy
I’m in the minority. Like you
There may be a diplomatic resolution of this tragedy, but it likely would require some concessions
The alternative is a devastated Ukraine.
Yeah the Ukrainians are putting up a great defense
But at what cost
Fortunately I'm not worried about making friends. I worry about having a sane world view.

I disagree that he's lost his mind. He's been forced into a difficult situation. Fortunately for him he has. a population that is use to living through hard times. I could more easily argue that America has lost it's mind by threatening it's #1 asset which is the dollar being the worlds reserve currency;


China already has a swift alternative and the world can't go without Russian resources for any length of time.

I question how much of a fight the Ukrainians are putting up. I think what the media/Pentagon did is make an absurd expectation....."Kiev falls in 1-4 days". WTF!?!?!? Ukraine has a population of over 40 million. Lets call it 37 without the Donbas. It's a large country. Roughly the size of Texas I think. They've been getting advanced weapons shipments from America and Great Britain for years. They have well trained "Nationally concerned Socialist militias" (yes it's true! I've posted the links in other threads) that have been trained by US Special Forces since 2016. The idea that Russia was just gonna roll over them is crazy!

America invaded Iraq in 2003.

*Iraq had 25 million people.
*Iraq's military had been through hell and back over the previous 23 years starting with Iran vs Iraq war, Gulf War 1, 10 years of sanctions and bombing throughout the 1990's, and a "shock and awe" air war before the ground invasion.

*It took over 40 days for Baghdad to fall.
 
I didn't know that was the standard.
I wasn't making a standard I was making a statement. I do not disagree with you that NATO is an innocent here. Surely mistakes were made AND that goes for Putin as well.
 
Putin din't move outside of his own borders until NATO expansion became truly unacceptable to him.

Ukraine......right on his doorstep!

Georgia!?!?!?! It's east of the Black Sea for Christs sake!

America/NATO has been the aggressor! Listen to Scott Horton's speech in the podcast I linked. He's no fan of Putin specifically his response to all this but the history on this subject is one sided. Since the red flag came down and the USSR ceased to exist America/NATO has been the sole aggressor. It's literally 100% our, meaning the political class and foreign policy establishment, fault
 
Their entire country and many lives, thats the cost. Putin will not stop until it is leveled.
The terms for peace they've supposedly offered were incredibly reasonable.

*Recognize Crimea as part of Russia......the place is like 90% Russian so WTF is the problem with that?

*Recognize the two eastern provinces in the Donbas as independent. They don't want to be part of Ukraine. They are Russian in every way a person can be Russian. The Ukrainian government talks about them as cockroaches and have armed and funded actual Neo Nazis to attack them (Azov Battalion is 1000% a Nazi organization) so......let em go!

*Agree not to enter the EU or NATO. Stop playing footsie with the west. Stop having western military advisors come to your country multiple times a year. Basically being a neutral nation that trades with both sides.

That's as reasonable of a peace as one can imagine. Give up land that they haven't controlled since 2015 anyways. Agree to the current situation. That's the offer of a very reasonable man if you ask me.
 
Fortunately I'm not worried about making friends. I worry about having a sane world view.

I disagree that he's lost his mind. He's been forced into a difficult situation. Fortunately for him he has. a population that is use to living through hard times. I could more easily argue that America has lost it's mind by threatening it's #1 asset which is the dollar being the worlds reserve currency;


China already has a swift alternative and the world can't go without Russian resources for any length of time.

I question how much of a fight the Ukrainians are putting up. I think what the media/Pentagon did is make an absurd expectation....."Kiev falls in 1-4 days". WTF!?!?!? Ukraine has a population of over 40 million. Lets call it 37 without the Donbas. It's a large country. Roughly the size of Texas I think. They've been getting advanced weapons shipments from America and Great Britain for years. They have well trained "Nationally concerned Socialist militias" (yes it's true! I've posted the links in other threads) that have been trained by US Special Forces since 2016. The idea that Russia was just gonna roll over them is crazy!

America invaded Iraq in 2003.

*Iraq had 25 million people.
*Iraq's military had been through hell and back over the previous 23 years starting with Iran vs Iraq war, Gulf War 1, 10 years of sanctions and bombing throughout the 1990's, and a "shock and awe" air war before the ground invasion.

*It took over 40 days for Baghdad to fall.
Let’s agree to disagree on whether Putin has lost some sanity. He’s on the edge in my view

I do agree that the media is encouraging this fight and spreading some of its own disinformation regarding the success of the invasion. Who said that Kiev would fall in 48 hours ? That’s ridiculous . All they are doing is increasing hysteria, promoting escalation, and endangering every one

I also agree that Russia/Putin have a point about self defense
I’m old enough to remember when we almost went to war with the USSR because they were going to put Nukes close to us. No one want hostile countries as their neighbor.
Of course the War Hawks will bring up possible incursions into NATO nations
I don’t see that as any threat.
That would definitely trigger increased hostilities.
Concessions need to be made . Your proposed solution is spot on .
 
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Putin din't move outside of his own borders until NATO expansion became truly unacceptable to him.

Ukraine......right on his doorstep!

Georgia!?!?!?! It's east of the Black Sea for Christs sake!

America/NATO has been the aggressor! Listen to Scott Horton's speech in the podcast I linked. He's no fan of Putin specifically his response to all this but the history on this subject is one sided. Since the red flag came down and the USSR ceased to exist America/NATO has been the sole aggressor. It's literally 100% our, meaning the political class and foreign policy establishment, fault
You speak as if NATO has no right to extend invitations to other soverign countries. The Balkans, Poland, Lithuania all NATO yet you pick Ukraine a NON member and accuse NATO as being the aggressor. I will say that all the USA bullshit RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA nonsense did nobody any favors in relations. I've read it pissed Putin off but good. You also omit the aggressive interference in our country with cyberattacks and hacking during our Democratic elections so do me a favor and don't try to sell NATO wrong Putin RIGHT because I'm not buying.
 
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The terms for peace they've supposedly offered were incredibly reasonable.

*Recognize Crimea as part of Russia......the place is like 90% Russian so WTF is the problem with that?

*Recognize the two eastern provinces in the Donbas as independent. They don't want to be part of Ukraine. They are Russian in every way a person can be Russian. The Ukrainian government talks about them as cockroaches and have armed and funded actual Neo Nazis to attack them (Azov Battalion is 1000% a Nazi organization) so......let em go!

*Agree not to enter the EU or NATO. Stop playing footsie with the west. Stop having western military advisors come to your country multiple times a year. Basically being a neutral nation that trades with both sides.

That's as reasonable of a peace as one can imagine. Give up land that they haven't controlled since 2015 anyways. Agree to the current situation. That's the offer of a very reasonable man if you ask me.
Sounds reasonable but we aren't Ukraine. I think it's better than being a country of ashes which is where Ukraine is headed. Putin will not stop until it is leveled.
 
You speak as if NATO has no right to extend invitations to other soverign countries. The Balkans, Poland, Lithuania all NATO yet you pick Ukraine a NON member and accuse NATO as being the aggressor. I will say that all the USA bullshit RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA nonsense did nobody any favors in relations. I've read it pissed Putin off but good. You also omit the aggressive interference in our country with cyberattacks and hacking during our Democratic elections so do me a favor and don't try to sell NATO wrong Putin RIGHT because I'm not buying.
Bringing those nations into NATO was provocative! Just like America thought it was provocative when the Soviets put missiles into Cuba. NO NATO shouldn't have expanded

You have any idea how many military exercises NATO has done with Ukraine in the last 7 years? You realize that America engineered a coup in the Ukraine to install a pro EU pro NATO government right? You've listened to the Nuland phone call right? Ukraine has been being groomed for acceptance into NATO. It's obvious to everyone.

"Aggressive interference in our country".....like them riggings the 2016 election for Trump? LOL! Why do you believe this stuff? It's fodder to gaslite people into supporting aggression. Supporting war.

NATO is the aggressor and you know how I know that? Because the fights happening in Ukraine not Mexico!
 
Sounds reasonable but we aren't Ukraine. I think it's better than being a country of ashes which is where Ukraine is headed. Putin will not stop until it is leveled.
Or until Ukraine agrees to incredibly reasonable peace terms. I had assumed he would demand Mariupol and Kherson at minimum. Nope. For practical purposes Russias proposal is what one calls a "white peace". No change of land or money. Everything goes back to how it was which under those terms it would since Ukraine hasn't controlled Crimea or Donbas since 2014/2015 (forget when Donbas established autonomy).
 
Let’s agree to disagree on whether Putin has lost some sanity. He’s on the edge in my view

I do agree that the media is encouraging this fight and spreading some of its own disinformation regarding the success of the invasion. Who said that Kiev would fall in 48 hours ? That’s ridiculous . All they are doing is increasing hysteria, promoting escalation, and endangering every one

I also agree that Russia/Putin have a point about self defense
I’m old enough to remember when we almost went to war with the USSR because they were going to put Nukes close to us. No one want hostile countries as their neighbor.
Of course the War Hawks will bring up possible incursions into NATO nations
I don’t see that as any threat.
That would definitely trigger increased hostilities.
Concessions need to be made . Your proposed solution is spot on .
Media claimed that was the Pentagon's estimate......the 1-4 days thing. Absurd. It's the ultimate example of under promise and over deliver.
 
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Prophecy fulfilled.

 
Bringing those nations into NATO was provocative! Just like America thought it was provocative when the Soviets put missiles into Cuba. NO NATO shouldn't have expanded

You have any idea how many military exercises NATO has done with Ukraine in the last 7 years? You realize that America engineered a coup in the Ukraine to install a pro EU pro NATO government right? You've listened to the Nuland phone call right? Ukraine has been being groomed for acceptance into NATO. It's obvious to everyone.

"Aggressive interference in our country".....like them riggings the 2016 election for Trump? LOL! Why do you believe this stuff? It's fodder to gaslite people into supporting aggression. Supporting war.

NATO is the aggressor and you know how I know that? Because the fights happening in Ukraine not Mexico!
What about our missile defense systems on NATO territory?
 
What about our missile defense systems on NATO territory?
They aren't missile defense. They are dual use launchers that are perfectly capable of launching cruise missiles tipped with nuclear warheads. If we wanted Eastern Europe to have missile defense we could sell them our AA systems. Like Russias done selling the S-400 to Turkey, China, and India (America's threatening to sanction India over that).
 
They aren't missile defense. They are dual use launchers that are perfectly capable of launching cruise missiles tipped with nuclear warheads. If we wanted Eastern Europe to have missile defense we could sell them our AA systems. Like Russias done selling the S-400 to Turkey, China, and India (America's threatening to sanction India over that).
Yes but I'm saying that we placed them in some countries (Poland I think) and backed off others. Obama backed away if I recall correctly. Trump advanced both research and numbers around the world.

Worth noting the S-500 RUSSIAN Anti Missile system is supposed to be the most sophisticated in the world. Putin even sols some to NATO partner Turkey which pissed off Trump but good.
 
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