This Ukraine situation something is wrong

[HJCane]

Doesn't make sense. Not adding up. Something stinks. I don't think it's as simple as Putin didn't want them joining NATO. That is the sort of issue that can be negotiated without War unless someone seriously underesitimated Putin's resolve. They negotiated not putting missile interceptors in certain countries but couldn't negotiate this?

I'm not buying what we are being told. I'm not buying that Zellensky is some Angel. I don't believe a thing we are being told or shown.

 

[wake4law_cane4life]

Well you are right it is not about them joining NATO. It is about several decades of bitterness over the humiliation of the collapse of USSR and a long term agenda of reconstituting as much of the old soviet bloc in eastern europe as possible.

 

[central17]

Doesn't make sense. Not adding up. Something stinks. I don't think it's as simple as Putin didn't want them joining NATO. That is the sort of issue that can be negotiated without War unless someone seriously underesitimated Putin's resolve. They negotiated not putting missile interceptors in certain countries but couldn't negotiate this?

I'm not buying what we are being told. I'm not buying that Zellensky is some Angel. I don't believe a thing we are being told or shown.

Agree 100%. Have heard a lot of nasty theories but nothing proven. One thing to consider: Very much like Covid there is a segment of people that are making A LOT of money from the Ukraine-Russia war.

 

[ddimaggio]

Putin is not entirely wrong about the relationship between Ukraine and Russia historically. There is a shared heritage, going bask a thousand years. But Ukraine is a separate country with its own territorial borders
Who knows exactly what he’s thinking, other than he doesn’t want his neighbors being hostile and joining an organization that was created to defend against Russia.

My concern continues to be the beating of the war drums and the intention of driving the Russian state in total chaos and poverty
I don’t believe that regime change is in the cards short term
What may likely happen is the opposite of the intended effect , a enraged Russian population. The most relevant analogy is not Hitler invading Czechoslovakia or Poland , but Germany after WW1 , where the punitive sanction led the German people to endorse a radical ideology.

 

[lyndiola]

Just a thought, I won't say I have inside info, but as I have said before, I have a family friend in St. Petersburg and he says the people are getting world opinions via the internet. Many believe the powerful oligarchs will engineer an overthrow. After that, no one knows

 

[wake4law_cane4life]

Putin is not entirely wrong about the relationship between Ukraine and Russia historically. There is a shared heritage, going bask a thousand years. But Ukraine is a separate country with its own territorial borders
Who knows exactly what he’s thinking, other than he doesn’t want his neighbors being hostile and joining an organization that was created to defend against Russia.

My concern continues to be the beating of the war drums and the intention of driving the Russian state in total chaos and poverty
I don’t believe that regime change is in the cards short term
What may likely happen is the opposite of the intended effect , a enraged Russian population. The most relevant analogy is not Hitler invading Czechoslovakia or Poland , but Germany after WW1 , where the punitive sanction led the German people to endorse a radical ideology.

There are very few nations that don't have significant heritage & culture overlap with neighboring nations, especially in regions along the borders. This is not unique or remarkable and we shouldn't even give Putin the time of day for saying the sky is blue. Being unwavering in our support and empowering ukraine to determine its own destiny is the moral thing to do and it is also a critical line to maintain to deter china in Taiwan.

I appreciate your concern for war drums beating. It is right to be concerned these are scary no margin for error conditions. If Biden engaged our military here directly it would be an impeachable level of gross recklessness. No fly zone is non starter as well. Ive seen nothing but firm commitment on not crossing those lines from the White House and that gives me great comfort. If he wavers at any point on those things i'll at that point become very quickly a big opponent of it. Germany example is relevant of course, but this isn't punitive it's fighting back against an ongoing atrocity. He's got the ability to have it turned off in an instant he knows what he has to do. The fact that hes unlikely to do it doesn't shift the fault to us. If the collapse does happen theres higher chance of regime change coming at some point. It will be important for us to be highly involved in humanitarian efforts to help russians at that point. Germany was made a pariah for spite after the fact and then left to rot.

 

[central17]

In the world history of warfare, many times success includes strategic retreats. Maybe that is the case with the Ukraine. The simple fact is that Ukraine, and moreso the west, were not prepared for Russia's invasion. The time for sending weapons was years ago. Now with Russia in control of the sky and water, they will certainly destroy and large cargo airplanes, trains or vehicles carrying weapons in.

As we see Mariupol without food and electricity being bombed to dust, I have to wonder about the wisdom affecting the real people there? Negotiations for a cease fire occur, Putin says terms are surrender, Zalensky gives him the finger, the US media cheers, then more buildings are bombed and more people die.

Yes Putin over estimated the ease of conquest. No, he will not be able to control. His army is nowhere near what he thought it was. But what is the point of having innocent Ukrainians die and the country's infrastructure destroyed? Putin's idea of Russia is not sustainable, but the west is not willing to send itself into an energy recession to save Ukraine now. Only when Europe no longer relies on Putin/Russian energy will this fight be won.

My concern now is Zalensky. Worldwide media praise can be a narcotic. Is he addicted? Every time a media person puts on their designer clothes in their safe luxury home, rides in a limo to the news room to praise Zalensky and the brave Ukrainian people (they are brave!), Russia drops a bomb which destoys property and often takes lives. How many Ukrainian lives is it worth to frustrate but not defeat Putin?

Is it now better to "Live to fight another day"?

 

[wake4law_cane4life]

Sure but your underlying description of the fundamentals of the situation are not accurate. Russia is not in control of the sky and hasn't been at any point. It is one of their most pronounced tactical failures of the invasion. The evidence at this point is pretty strong that they are unlikely to ever achieve control of the skies or of any significant amount of critical strategic territory. Im not sure what you mean about control of the water, but there has been virtually no involvement of naval assets on any side in this invasion.

 

[JCR Cane]

Putin likely has his eyes on the dirt in the Ukraine. VAST minerals content. Some of the highest concentrations in the world essential to nuclear production and semi-conductors, among other things....Food for thought......

 

[central17]

Sure but your underlying description of the fundamentals of the situation are not accurate. Russia is not in control of the sky and hasn't been at any point. It is one of their most pronounced tactical failures of the invasion. The evidence at this point is pretty strong that they are unlikely to ever achieve control of the skies or of any significant amount of critical strategic territory. Im not sure what you mean about control of the water, but there has been virtually no involvement of naval assets on any side in this invasion.

The term "Control of the sky" is relative. 100% as in no resistance is not the issue. Russia has been able to inflict significant damage through the air. Hence Zelensky continued plea for a no fly zone. The issue is getting weapons into Ukraine and put in place. Russia certainly has more than enough air power to monitor roads leading into Ukraine and take out airfields. The Black Sea becomes an issue if there are attempts to bring in weapons by ship. not

Your soap box stance on Russia not being in control of the skies is indicative of the disconnect between the media and the true horrors of war. Media and politicians sit in their cozy life in the US and blabber "HaHa, Putin had 10 aircraft shot down. He air force is not as good as advertised". Meanwhile in Ukraine 90 Russian aircraft did drop bombs destroying building, services and killing people. Tell the son of a mother that was killed by bombs from Russian aircraft how Putin's air force is of no consequence.

 

[lyndiola]

Sure but your underlying description of the fundamentals of the situation are not accurate. Russia is not in control of the sky and hasn't been at any point. It is one of their most pronounced tactical failures of the invasion. The evidence at this point is pretty strong that they are unlikely to ever achieve control of the skies or of any significant amount of critical strategic territory. Im not sure what you mean about control of the water, but there has been virtually no involvement of naval assets on any side in this invasion.

Russia controls the sky, period. The only tactical error their army has made is a total lack of logistical support for the ground troops. Our retired talking head generals have all pointed to this as a gross error in leadership

 

[wake4law_cane4life]

Does it usually work for you when you make an easily disprovable claim but say it emphatically and spell out the word period to add on? I'm genuinely curious because it's an admirable bluff to be so confident while not actually knowing shit. So all planes and even helos that are flying at any given time anywhere in the world are tracked in real time through systems of global satellites that can know what exact model the plane is where it took off from how fast it is traveling etc etc. It does not matter if it is a 737 from Delta or a Russian MIG. This is all open source information that you can access with about 15 seconds of googling. Here is what the skies over eastern europe look like right now. You can see in the top right the time is from a few minutes ago. For an invading country that "controls the sky, period" it sure is bizarre not to see a single damn plane or helo participating in combined arms assault on the enemy positions it is trying to take. You can do this on your own too...at any time you want. You'll get similar results.

 

[wake4law_cane4life]

The term "Control of the sky" is relative. 100% as in no resistance is not the issue. Russia has been able to inflict significant damage through the air. Hence Zelensky continued plea for a no fly zone. The issue is getting weapons into Ukraine and put in place. Russia certainly has more than enough air power to monitor roads leading into Ukraine and take out airfields. The Black Sea becomes an issue if there are attempts to bring in weapons by ship. not

Your soap box stance on Russia not being in control of the skies is indicative of the disconnect between the media and the true horrors of war. Media and politicians sit in their cozy life in the US and blabber "HaHa, Putin had 10 aircraft shot down. He air force is not as good as advertised". Meanwhile in Ukraine 90 Russian aircraft did drop bombs destroying building, services and killing people. Tell the son of a mother that was killed by bombs from Russian aircraft how Putin's air force is of no consequence.

In the span of two paragraphs you moved the goal post all the way from the discussion being about "control of the sky" to "putin's air force is of consequence." You'll look like morten anderson himself anytime you attempt a kick when youve got the goal posts moving for you like that lol.

 

[KOWBOY88]

Putin likely has his eyes on the dirt in the Ukraine. VAST minerals content. Some of the highest concentrations in the world essential to nuclear production and semi-conductors, among other things....Food for thought......

This ^
Putin doesn’t care about the buildings or the people and he doesn’t care about anything Ukraine produces .
The minerals are a gold mind and the farm country that produces a big % of the world’s wheat. Also control of the northern coast of the Black Sea.
Russia is a commodities producer Oil rare earth minerals and wheat.

 

[lyndiola]

There are very few nations that don't have significant heritage & culture overlap with neighboring nations, especially in regions along the borders. This is not unique or remarkable and we shouldn't even give Putin the time of day for saying the sky is blue. Being unwavering in our support and empowering ukraine to determine its own destiny is the moral thing to do and it is also a critical line to maintain to deter china in Taiwan.

I appreciate your concern for war drums beating. It is right to be concerned these are scary no margin for error conditions. If Biden engaged our military here directly it would be an impeachable level of gross recklessness. No fly zone is non starter as well. Ive seen nothing but firm commitment on not crossing those lines from the White House and that gives me great comfort. If he wavers at any point on those things i'll at that point become very quickly a big opponent of it. Germany example is relevant of course, but this isn't punitive it's fighting back against an ongoing atrocity. He's got the ability to have it turned off in an instant he knows what he has to do. The fact that hes unlikely to do it doesn't shift the fault to us. If the collapse does happen theres higher chance of regime change coming at some point. It will be important for us to be highly involved in humanitarian efforts to help russians at that point. Germany was made a pariah for spite after the fact and then left to rot.

Really, my opinions are a reflection of military experts who almost all agree that Russia controls the airspace.

Does it usually work for you when you make an easily disprovable claim but say it emphatically and spell out the word period to add on? I'm genuinely curious because it's an admirable bluff to be so confident while not actually knowing shit. So all planes and even helos that are flying at any given time anywhere in the world are tracked in real time through systems of global satellites that can know what exact model the plane is where it took off from how fast it is traveling etc etc. It does not matter if it is a 737 from Delta or a Russian MIG. This is all open source information that you can access with about 15 seconds of googling. Here is what the skies over eastern europe look like right now. You can see in the top right the time is from a few minutes ago. For an invading country that "controls the sky, period" it sure is bizarre not to see a single damn plane or helo participating in combined arms assault on the enemy positions it is trying to take. You can do this on your own too...at any time you want. You'll get similar results.

I am not a military expert and my opinions are a reflection of military experts who almost all agree that Russia controls the airspace hence Ukraine's need for migs. Since you are such a Google expert, perhaps you can start with our retired generals and hear what they say. Or, turn on your TV and see the carnage Russia is inflecting with bombs and ATG missiles.

 

[zeski78]

I have enjoyed monitoring this thread

 

[central17]

In the span of two paragraphs you moved the goal post all the way from the discussion being about "control of the sky" to "putin's air force is of consequence." You'll look like morten anderson himself anytime you attempt a kick when youve got the goal posts moving for you like that lol.

The destroyed building and families of Ukrainians killed by Putin's airforce, that are shown every night US media say Hi.
The Polish Mig 29's and no fly zone that Zalensky continues to ask for also say Hi.

The west is allowing Ukraine to die a slow and brutal death as our media and politicians talk tough from safe spaces.

 

[ddimaggio]

The destroyed building and families of Ukrainians killed by Putin's airforce, that are shown every night US media say Hi.
The Polish Mig 29's and no fly zone that Zalensky continues to ask for also say Hi.

The west is allowing Ukraine to die a slow and brutal death as our media and politicians talk tough from safe spaces.

They are not flying many fighter jets over Ukraine, that’s true . They present to much of a target for ground based anti aircraft weapons
So they have been lobbing rockets and artillery all over the place , including their new hyper sonic rockets which are very difficult to defend against .
I’m with you .
I think we are getting gaslighted by everyone
No one is winning shyt , but people are dying and cities are getting leveled
I think the whole let’s borrow some MIGS is a media hype job , won’t mean crap
The Russians are just going to keep pounding until someone says UNCLE .

 

[wake4law_cane4life]

The destroyed building and families of Ukrainians killed by Putin's airforce, that are shown every night US media say Hi.
The Polish Mig 29's and no fly zone that Zalensky continues to ask for also say Hi.

The west is allowing Ukraine to die a slow and brutal death as our media and politicians talk tough from safe spaces.

You keep moving goal posts. I understand the rain of terror russia has brought down on ukraine from the air. It is horrific. What I have consistently said without changing my language even one bit is that the two people saying Russia controls the sky are wrong. Russia does not control the sky. Ukraine has pounded Russian ground air forces with a relentless daily barrage of surface to air missiles and drone deployed missiles that have done significant damage to Russian forward deployed columns and troop positions. They have even shot down a number of helos and jets. That is nowhere in the vicinity of controlling the sky. That is the very definition of contested sky.

As a side note I agree with Ddmiggo that there is no one winning this war in a human sense. From a military & strategic sense Ukraine is winning because they are not losing. That is the basic reality of siege defense. We should pray for their souls.

 

[hawaiian cane]

The Ukraine is the world's 2nd leading country exporting wheat and grain. Putin's idea of expansion is also to use hunger as a weapon. By controlling the exports of wheat and grain it could be a source of revenue for the Russians. Natural gas and fossil fuel are the top areas for Russia but what Russia really needs are other means of revenue. It costs Russia tons of $$$$ to extract fossil fuel below layers of ice.

 

[genghiscane]

Doesn't make sense. Not adding up. Something stinks. I don't think it's as simple as Putin didn't want them joining NATO. That is the sort of issue that can be negotiated without War unless someone seriously underesitimated Putin's resolve. They negotiated not putting missile interceptors in certain countries but couldn't negotiate this?

I'm not buying what we are being told. I'm not buying that Zellensky is some Angel. I don't believe a thing we are being told or shown.

I think that’s the point… the Ukraine not joining NATO agreement has been in place since the breakup of the USSR. It was one condition particularly with Ukraine and it surrendering its 4,000 nukes.

 

[rkrantz]

This whole things stinks... and is playing out like a bad soap opera.

What doesnt sit right with me is that Russia is an absolute world power. There isnt an argument against that. (Is there?)

How does a mega world power like Russia stumble, bumble and fumble their way through an "invasion" against a smaller, less prepared and far less equipped neighboring country?

The answer is: They dont... unless its on purpose.

I believe that if Putin REALLY wanted to take Ukraine that it would have taken about the same amount of time it took the US to take Iraq during Desert Storm. I don't think Putin really wants to take the country back. If he did, it would have been over in about 72 hours. He needs to drag this out for as long as it takes for him to accomplish his goal.

I think this is a chess move for the long game.

I think he's flexing his muscles and posturing up to take advantage of a WEAK US Administration that is scatter-brained and unfocused... a weak NATO/EU organization that can't figure out who is coming in or who is going out... and a world that has been so focused on stopping a global pandemic (laughable) that nobody is paying attention.

Aside from Covid, the world is focused on renewable and cleaner energy sources. In 20 years or so... we will have fully autonomous EV's for everyone. Gasoline will be something that only lawnmowers and fishing boats need. Putin has about 2 decades to cash in on his oil supply before his biggest export becomes majorly devalued. Right now, the demand is through the roof and he can reset the market value by acting like a tyrant.

"... if you want me to stop being a bully... you'll have to pay me more money..."

Its an opportunistic move. One that will pay off in the long run if he gets what he wants. And in my opinion he will because the entire world is being run by absolute WEAKLINGS. Not 1 world leader has a sack.

As someone stated above... there are people that are cashing in BIG TIME on this "war". I suspect there is a VERY good chance that someone with the last name of Biden is on that list of people.

Nevertheless... I'm not buying most of what we're seeing. This isnt a war... its a dog-and-pony show.

Watch how Biden and other world leaders bend the knee to Putin, remove sanctions and negotiate a deal with him to export his oil (among other things) exclusively for the next 20-30 years at a gigantic rate hike.

*EDIT* I wouldnt be surprised to see Ukraine make out like a bandit from this ordeal as well, considering the amount of grain they export (as referenced above). Wouldnt surprise me at all to see them come out with a better trade deal and valuation for their exports as well under the guise of "humanitarian relief efforts".

 

[dbm26669]

Guys, productive conversation. Glad most were not killing each other on politics but trying to see each others point.

 

[dbm26669]

Well I was almost right LOL!!

 

[trailboss2]

Doesn't make sense. Not adding up. Something stinks. I don't think it's as simple as Putin didn't want them joining NATO. That is the sort of issue that can be negotiated without War unless someone seriously underesitimated Putin's resolve. They negotiated not putting missile interceptors in certain countries but couldn't negotiate this?

I'm not buying what we are being told. I'm not buying that Zellensky is some Angel. I don't believe a thing we are being told or shown.

they put shows on tel-a-vision for a reason...all u have to do is stick to your last sentence and u will be just fine. "i dont believe a thing we are being told or shown."

 

[central17]

This whole things stinks... and is playing out like a bad soap opera.

What doesnt sit right with me is that Russia is an absolute world power. There isnt an argument against that. (Is there?)

How does a mega world power like Russia stumble, bumble and fumble their way through an "invasion" against a smaller, less prepared and far less equipped neighboring country?

The answer is: They dont... unless its on purpose.

I believe that if Putin REALLY wanted to take Ukraine that it would have taken about the same amount of time it took the US to take Iraq during Desert Storm. I don't think Putin really wants to take the country back. If he did, it would have been over in about 72 hours. He needs to drag this out for as long as it takes for him to accomplish his goal.

I think this is a chess move for the long game.

I think he's flexing his muscles and posturing up to take advantage of a WEAK US Administration that is scatter-brained and unfocused... a weak NATO/EU organization that can't figure out who is coming in or who is going out... and a world that has been so focused on stopping a global pandemic (laughable) that nobody is paying attention.

Aside from Covid, the world is focused on renewable and cleaner energy sources. In 20 years or so... we will have fully autonomous EV's for everyone. Gasoline will be something that lawnmowers and fishing boats need. Putin has about 2 decades to cash in on his oil supply before his biggest export becomes majorly devalued. Right now, the demand is through the roof and he can reset the market value by acting like a tyrant.

"... if you want me to stop being a bully... you'll have to pay me more money..."

Its an opportunistic move. One that will pay off in the long run if he gets what he wants. And in my opinion he will because the entire world is being run by absolute WEAKLINGS. Not 1 world leader has a sack.

As someone stated above... there are people that are cashing in BIG TIME on this "war". I suspect there is a VERY good chance that someone with the last name of Biden is on that list of people.

Nevertheless... I'm not buying most of what we're seeing. This isnt a war... its a dog-and-pony show.

Watch how Biden and Co. bend the knee to Putin, remove sanctions and negotiate a deal with him to export his oil (among other things) exclusively for the next 20 years at a gigantic rate hike.

#buildbackbetter? 🤔 🤦‍♂️

More like "Give it away... give it away... give it away now"

rkrantz,
Always enjoy reading your well thought out and informative. posts. You are definately one of the best on this board. Your theory makes more sense than a lot that I have heard. I am sure there are a number of elements of truth to it. As often the case, follow the money!

 

[central17]

The Ukraine is the world's 2nd leading country exporting wheat and grain. Putin's idea of expansion is also to use hunger as a weapon. By controlling the exports of wheat and grain it could be a source of revenue for the Russians. Natural gas and fossil fuel are the top areas for Russia but what Russia really needs are other means of revenue. It costs Russia tons of $$$$ to extract fossil fuel below layers of ice.

Your comment about Ukrainian wheat and grain is very relevant. The Ukrainian spring crop is most likely lost. However it is the Fall season that has a much bigger harverst. Putin is likely reminding the west that he can f*k with the world's food supply if he does not get concessions he wants.

 

[sabrose]

The Ukraine invasion is not complicated. Putin actually said that glasnost was a mistake right before the invasion. This was never about Russian security. The Ukranians hate the Russian govt and its abuses and Mass murder of its population in the 20th century. It why they would rather die than live under Russian rule and why they fight so hard.
The Russians took advantage of the disarray following WWII to take over Eastern Europe. But now that these countries are sovereign and have developed their defense its going to be near impossible to regain those territories. That's the hard lesson Putin is learning . He has destabilized his own country and strengthened the resolve of Nato and has made a huge mistake. He is the perfect example of a tyrant whose advisors are afraid to disagree and criticize and have left him to his defective virtual reality.
The question moving forward is whether the Russian people have the guts to overthrow this bastard or settle for the same rotten governments they were subjected to in the past.

 

[rkrantz]

Well I was almost right LOL!!

I modified my post to better fall in line with your comment.

Agree that the topic has been well discussed without disparaging political comments.

Besides, everyone knows by now anyway, right?? LoL! 🤷‍♂️

 

[krvanness]

Agree 100%. Have heard a lot of nasty theories but nothing proven. One thing to consider: Very much like Covid there is a segment of people that are making A LOT of money from the Ukraine-Russia war.

Yes, and also like COVID, it's a distraction to deflect from other agendas this shit administration is pursuing.

 

[wake4law_cane4life]

brother krantz i think you’re off the mark here. I agree putin is a long game player - he’s been demonstrating that across three decades while the west allowed him to build the russian economy into an export driven system that can leverage others (eg germany). He’s played chess while we play checkers. But from an organizational behavior perspective autocratic rule is self-destructive and either fails quickly because of an incompetent autocrat or fails after a long period because of how a competent autocrat warps the organization over time. We’ve reached the last part of that with putin. His circle of advisers has shrunk to a single digit number over time and his effective liquidation of all opposition leaves no one with direct access who is willing to tell him they think he’s making a mistake. That results in the russian government being a vast organization being executed by government workers 99.9% of whom are completely in the dark about what the organizational goals are. That is the kind of organization that leads to something like putin having a genuine belief that ukrainians don’t like the westernization being forced on them by a government that tap dances for washington on command and russian forces will be welcomed by most of the civilian population and the war can be won in a few days. Of course KGB and pretty much anyone connected to reality understood that ukraine is gonna fight to the death against him if he comes and they don’t like him , but who is gonna be the one who gets that message through to him? no one was told there was an actual war plan and so that’s just all the more reason to keep the mouth shut and confirm what he wants to hear.
As someone who has spent the last twelve years loudly telling anyone who will listen that Putin is an enormous long term threat and he’s gonna one day launch a major invasion of eastern europe, I actually now think he has fallen victim to his own success as an autocrat, as ALL autocrats eventually do. He in no way anticipated this being the way things played out and he has ensured the demise of russia as a global power for the next few decades. Their situation grows increasingly dire and they cannot recover here. If you’re looking for where the money flows when this is all done don’t look to russia- it’s flowing towards north america instead. 100% serious in saying this: My assessment after consuming and analyzing information on this hours on end every day for the last few months is that this is a geopolitical paradigm shift event on the level of 9/11 perhaps more consequential and the outcome is very likely a resurgence of American power back to 1990 level. This is a death blow for russia and it is very very bad for china as well.

 

[central17]

Does it usually work for you when you make an easily disprovable claim but say it emphatically and spell out the word period to add on? I'm genuinely curious because it's an admirable bluff to be so confident while not actually knowing shit. So all planes and even helos that are flying at any given time anywhere in the world are tracked in real time through systems of global satellites that can know what exact model the plane is where it took off from how fast it is traveling etc etc. It does not matter if it is a 737 from Delta or a Russian MIG. This is all open source information that you can access with about 15 seconds of googling. Here is what the skies over eastern europe look like right now. You can see in the top right the time is from a few minutes ago. For an invading country that "controls the sky, period" it sure is bizarre not to see a single damn plane or helo participating in combined arms assault on the enemy positions it is trying to take. You can do this on your own too...at any time you want. You'll get similar results.

Wake-law,
Last night you wrote that there was virtually no Russian air activity over Ukraine. This morning European news sources reported over 300 Russian sorties last night. Not going to waste time playing wordsmith as to whether that qualifies as "control of the sky" but that is a whole lot of destruction caused to Ukraine by the Russian airforce. BBC is reporting air raid sirens in Ukraine again tonight. Meanwhile on CNN, the reknown military scholar Don Lemon is whining the Republican's were mean to Ketanji Brown Jackson today.

 

[cems52]

Doesn't make sense. Not adding up. Something stinks. I don't think it's as simple as Putin didn't want them joining NATO. That is the sort of issue that can be negotiated without War unless someone seriously underesitimated Putin's resolve. They negotiated not putting missile interceptors in certain countries but couldn't negotiate this?

I'm not buying what we are being told. I'm not buying that Zellensky is some Angel. I don't believe a thing we are being told or shown.

Figures. Why don't you ask Trump what is the truth?

 

[wake4law_cane4life]

Wake-law,
Last night you wrote that there was virtually no Russian air activity over Ukraine. This morning European news sources reported over 300 Russian sorties last night. Not going to waste time playing wordsmith as to whether that qualifies as "control of the sky" but that is a whole lot of destruction caused to Ukraine by the Russian airforce. BBC is reporting air raid sirens in Ukraine again tonight. Meanwhile on CNN, the reknown military scholar Don Lemon is whining the Republican's were mean to Ketanji Brown Jackson today.

“I would say that the Ukrainians have been extraordinarily effective at preventing the Russians from achieving air superiority by the agility and the nimble way in which they are marshaling their own air defense resources…And that includes everything from aircraft to surface-to-air missile systems, both short range and long range."

-United States Department of Defense, yesterday.

Actual Department of Defense government press release that says you’re a clown

 

[rkrantz]

Figures. Why don't you ask Trump what is the truth?

Nobody needs to ask what the truth is anymore.

We can all see the truth very clearly.

Obama in White House- Russia goes crazy
Trump in White House - Russia behaved
Biden in White House - Russia going crazy

Proof is in Bidens pudding.

 

[central17]

“I would say that the Ukrainians have been extraordinarily effective at preventing the Russians from achieving air superiority by the agility and the nimble way in which they are marshaling their own air defense resources…And that includes everything from aircraft to surface-to-air missile systems, both short range and long range."

-United States Department of Defense, yesterday.

Actual Department of Defense government press release that says you’re a clown

Do you trust everything that is written by the Biden administration?
Families of at least 13 dead in Afghanistan say "hi".

 

[rkrantz]

brother krantz i think you’re off the mark here. I agree putin is a long game player - he’s been demonstrating that across three decades while the west allowed him to build the russian economy into an export driven system that can leverage others (eg germany). He’s played chess while we play checkers. But from an organizational behavior perspective autocratic rule is self-destructive and either fails quickly because of an incompetent autocrat or fails after a long period because of how a competent autocrat warps the organization over time. We’ve reached the last part of that with putin. His circle of advisers has shrunk to a single digit number over time and his effective liquidation of all opposition leaves no one with direct access who is willing to tell him they think he’s making a mistake. That results in the russian government being a vast organization being executed by government workers 99.9% of whom are completely in the dark about what the organizational goals are. That is the kind of organization that leads to something like putin having a genuine belief that ukrainians don’t like the westernization being forced on them by a government that tap dances for washington on command and russian forces will be welcomed by most of the civilian population and the war can be won in a few days. Of course KGB and pretty much anyone connected to reality understood that ukraine is gonna fight to the death against him if he comes and they don’t like him , but who is gonna be the one who gets that message through to him? no one was told there was an actual war plan and so that’s just all the more reason to keep the mouth shut and confirm what he wants to hear.
As someone who has spent the last twelve years loudly telling anyone who will listen that Putin is an enormous long term threat and he’s gonna one day launch a major invasion of eastern europe, I actually now think he has fallen victim to his own success as an autocrat, as ALL autocrats eventually do. He in no way anticipated this being the way things played out and he has ensured the demise of russia as a global power for the next few decades. Their situation grows increasingly dire and they cannot recover here. If you’re looking for where the money flows when this is all done don’t look to russia- it’s flowing towards north america instead. 100% serious in saying this: My assessment after consuming and analyzing information on this hours on end every day for the last few months is that this is a geopolitical paradigm shift event on the level of 9/11 perhaps more consequential and the outcome is very likely a resurgence of American power back to 1990 level. This is a death blow for russia and it is very very bad for china as well.

Brother Wake...

I considered that fact as well. That Putin has just lost his $hit and his time has run it's course and he's about to sink Russia.

Then I considered the fact that it's 2022. And the world has grown much smarter... and there is access to incredible amounts of information at our fingertips.

And I looked at the landscape of the world in this "pandemic age" as well as the current "leadership" throughout the world.

And then I asked myself "...what would I do if I were in this situation...?"

The answer solidified my point of view like concrete. I hope and pray that your scenario is in fact the truth because then (in my opinion) that will be a much better outcome for America and (most) of the world.

But my faith in the current powers-that-be is not high at all and I think Putin may flex to the point that everyone else will break when facing real conflict... since there isnt anyone with the stones in power to put him in check.

Again... I pray YOU are correct here.

 

[wake4law_cane4life]

Brother Wake...

I considered that fact as well. That Putin has just lost his $hit and his time has run it's course and he's about to sink Russia.

Then I considered the fact that it's 2022. And the world has grown much smarter... and there is access to incredible amounts of information at our fingertips.

And I looked at the landscape of the world in this "pandemic age" as well as the current "leadership" throughout the world.

And then I asked myself "...what would I do if I were in this situation...?"

The answer solidified my point of view like concrete. I hope and pray that your scenario is in fact the truth because then (in my opinion) that will be a much better outcome for America and (most) of the world.

But my faith in the current powers-that-be is not high at all and I think Putin may flex to the point that everyone else will break when facing real conflict... since there isnt anyone with the stones in power to put him in check.

Again... I pray YOU are correct here.

Completely fair and patriotic response. I am confident in my assessment but understand fully the future variables are incalculable and it could go many ways.

 

[rkrantz]

Completely fair and patriotic response. I am confident in my assessment but understand fully the future variables are incalculable and it could go many ways.

Keeping a close eye on this... but again, the longer this draws out the worse it gets for us.

Putin being kind of "ho-hum" about sending in major forces leads me to think he's being coy. We're supposed to believe that "...he's growing frustrated with their struggle to effectively fight..." and that people are saying that he hasnt ruled out using chemical or nuclear weapons just further leads me to believe that this is just him playing a hand.

If Putin wanted to, he could ANNIHILATE Ukraine. Right, quick and in a hurry. Like... right now! War would be over in time for the 6 o'clock news feed.

I don't think he wants to do that... because then he loses his leverage. He wants to use the threat of escalation and catastrophic action (chemical and/or nuclear weapons) as a scare tactic to scare The West into giving him what he wants.

Generationally BAD results for America and many many other countries if that happens.

 

[Raoul2]

Nobody needs to ask what the truth is anymore.

We can all see the truth very clearly.

Obama in White House- Russia goes crazy
Trump in White House - Russia behaved
Biden in White House - Russia going crazy

Proof is in Bidens pudding.

This is because Trump did Putin’s dirty work for him to where Putin didn’t need to take any action. Trump acted like a wrecking ball on NATO by threatening to pull the US out of it, which would’ve achieved one of Putin’s lifelong ambitions of getting rid of NATO so he could invade Europe. It would’ve happened had Trump won re-election. Once Putin realized it wasn’t happening, he took matters into his own hands.